If Knowledge Is Knowing, Then Wisdom Is Doing.

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You can know how to write a book, but wisdom is actually writing it and having that first-hand realization. Knowledge is the Blank Canvas, Wisdom is the Art.

Genkaku

17 Apr 2009 06:06

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Sure, I can agree with that despite the whole 'not everyone who does stuff is wise' thing. There is a quote that lays out knowledge and wisdom into education and experience:

"Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't." In my life, experiences have made me more wise whereas education only gets me in the door.

Damien

05 Aug 2009 21:59

4 Comments

Not everyone who does stuff is wise, they may have the experience, but wisdom is using that experience, some people won't and sometimes forget it ever happened and make the same mistake.

Wisdom isn't the experience, it is using that experience.

Genkaku

06 Aug 2009 04:40

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I agree with the sentiment of your debate although I recognize the technical reasons why some chose to respond on the other side. Wisdom is not simply doing because there are lots of things people do which aren't wise.

Knowledge is bits of information. Wisdom is making good choices based on those bits of information.

Grenache

20 Apr 2009 21:47

1 Comment

Well, I see where you are coming from.
But I never said the person was wisdom, so therefore wisdom doesn't make bad choices.

The person does.

Although that is what I believe, Dan's reasoning behind saying it is a whole nother reason.

He's trying to prove one thing and I'm trying to prove another. ( Yes, a little bit of uneeded info', just thought you would want to know.)

Genkaku

23 Apr 2009 22:36

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If knowledge is knowing something, then wisdom would be correctly making use of the knowledge owned when acting. If the knowledge owned is not correctly made use of while acting, then that’s what’s called foolishness.

Hizashi

18 Apr 2009 08:51

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Well since this is my debate I suppose I required to type a detailed response supporting my thought.

Not initially my thought, though, to be honest.
It is from the book, Peaceful Warrior written by Dan Milman.

His concept was that of a dimensional relationship of our body.

He believed the first step was understanding something; the brain by itself; one dimensional. "It is the comprehension of intellect. It leads to knowledge, which you already have."

From that he moves on to the three dimensional aspect of realizing something.
He says it is not only the head, or your knowledge, working by itself, but that it is a simultaneous use of the "whole body": Head, Heart and Physical Instinct.

So to sum it up, in my words, I conclude realization is a product of having done something. Therefore giving you the wisdom of having done that something. So it isn't that wisdom isn't a further understanding, it is a product of having done. Therefore it is doing, for you must have knowledge to do and you must do to have wisdom.

Genkaku

18 Apr 2009 06:53

6 Comments

I think your conclusion is missing the point.

You don't need knowledge to do. To say one must do to have wisdom seems odd when basing criteria from the heart (unless you are talking about the muscle - aerobics maybe?) : )

justsumguy

18 Apr 2009 14:43

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What a great debate topic !

Wonderful.

And yes knowledge is KNOWING and yes, wisdom is applied knowledge so yes, wisdom is DOING.

"faith without works is dead being alone".
(James 2:20).

jalapenos

17 Apr 2009 14:55

8 Comments

you're right good topic. Knowing and doing or not doing. What the wise must know. Other times it can be instinctive.

keepmindok

17 Apr 2009 17:29

Comment

takes one to know one if two are in the same flow or balance of the universe: the Universal Consciousness and the conscious or unconscious human mind share the same deeper insights and Wisdom: in this regard at least there is the Law Of Attraction present.
You can FEEL like vibrations in another whose strength inside is similar to one's own inner insight and strength.
And one either has it or they don't. It is not given nor learned.

You have it.

I always knew it.
Why do you think I enjoy writing to you so much online and find our interactions mutually-enjoyable?

:-)

Sting's song/words youtube.com
"and the SUN (leo star sign) in his jealous sky as we walk in fields of gold"....

Sting has balance in his force: it can be felt in the vibrations of his songs: there is a warmth a heat a radiance in him of light/happiness it is not as much his physical sexuality but his "spiritual 'SENSUality" (of the senses) which is
imparted into his music to the listener.

And how would I know about "Transference" ??

;-)

(I used to be a fabulous performer a lot of it was technique granted that, but also I had that certain extra, like Sting, I had the insight/wisdom I thought I invented "transference" as a teenager i used it came up with the concept and implementation of it in my music back in the early 1980's, later years later found out about it in the literature others had been doing it for years...Was a bit deflated by that tidbit, lol that would be a bit like ole Bill Gates if he had found out someone else had invented Microsoft first, LOL lol @ myslef on that one lol :-I)

Anyway, thanks for the compliment.
Coming from you I know it to always be only sincere.
Lying is not in your personality profile.
Nor in mine.

This honesty which is innate is one of our better overlapping-qualities.
One I happen to value as you do.

Thanks again.

Comment

It's kinda comical how you hang on your instinctive verse. Both of you like that line of thought.

How about the chapter from whence the verse comes:

1.  My brethren, hold not, in respect of persons, the faith of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2.  for if there may come into your synagogue a man with gold ring, in gay raiment, and there may come in also a poor man in vile raiment,

3.  and ye may look upon him bearing the gay raiment, and may say to him, `Thou -- sit thou here well,' and to the poor man may say, `Thou -- stand thou there, or, Sit thou here under my footstool,

4.  ye did not judge fully in yourselves, and did become ill-reasoning judges.

5.  Hearken, my brethren beloved, did not God choose the poor of this world, rich in faith, and heirs of the reign that He promised to those loving Him?

6.  and ye did dishonour the poor one; do not the rich oppress you and themselves draw you to judgment-seats;

7.  do they not themselves speak evil of the good name that was called upon you?

8.  If, indeed, royal law ye complete, according to the Writing, `Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,' -- ye do well;

Maybe we should repeat verse 8 a few hundred times for good effect.

9.  and if ye accept persons, sin ye do work, being convicted by the law as transgressors;

At some point, one has to start asking themselves, just what "works" can James be talking about. It sure has nothing to do with being successful. So far, he's saying good things about the poor, ragged man and saying not to be deceived by appearances.

10.  for whoever the whole law shall keep, and shall stumble in one [point], he hath become guilty of all;

We should probably repeat verse 10 a couple hundred times?

11.  for He who is saying, `Thou mayest not commit adultery,' said also, `Thou mayest do no murder;' and if thou shalt not commit adultery, and shalt commit murder, thou hast become a transgressor of law;

12.  so speak ye and so do, as about by a law of liberty to be judged,

Don't know how verse 12 hits your instinct.

13.  for the judgment without kindness [is] to him not having done kindness, and exult doth kindness over judgment.

Kinda instinctive to wonder about God's judgement at this point.

Now all of a sudden, we get to verse 14:

14.  What [is] the profit, my brethren, if faith, any one may speak of having, and works he may not have? is that faith able to save him?

Sounds like a continuation of the subject matter? Is he still talking about those of  "appearances" or has he completely changed the subject towards your instinct?

And what is this "any one may speak of having" thing? Is this talking about real faith? Or is it talking about claims of faith?

And notice the "good works" which have been referred to so far.

The main commandment according to Jesus, love thy neighbor as thyself and kindness.

15.  and if a brother or sister may be naked, and may be destitute of the daily food,

ooops...we're right back to the poor and ragged

16.  and any one of you may say to them, `Depart ye in peace, be warmed, and be filled,' and may not give to them the things needful for the body, what [is] the profit?

No doubt about this one is there? Lip service all the way.

and here we go!

17.  so also the faith, if it may not have works, is dead by itself

Obviously talking about lip service.

18.  But say may some one, Thou hast faith, and I have works, shew me thy faith out of thy works, and I will shew thee out of my works my faith:

19.  thou -- thou dost believe that God is one; thou dost well, and the demons believe, and they shudder!

Well, looky there. What I was talking about in my response to the debate. What a coincidence!

20.  And dost thou wish to know, O vain man, that the faith apart from the works is dead?

You can finish the chapter with the examples and then pay close attention to the next chapter where you will see the words "mouth" and "toungue".

After clearly talking about lip service we get to Chapter 3 verse 13:

Who [is] wise and intelligent among you? let him shew out of the good behaviour his works in meekness of wisdom,

Good behaviour in meekness of wisdom. There's some good works for you.

14.  and if bitter zeal ye have, and rivalry in your heart, glory not, nor lie against the truth;

Bitter zeal. Sounds like something I see with regularity when reading "christian" posts on this site.

15.  this wisdom is not descending from above, but earthly, physical, demon-like,

Now we're talking INSTINCT.

16.  for where zeal and rivalry [are], there is insurrection and every evil matter;

17.  and the wisdom from above, first, indeed, is pure, then peaceable, gentle, easily entreated, full of kindness and good fruits, uncontentious, and unhypocritical: --

And there you have it. We should repeat that one about a 1000 times.

And then let's finish the chapter:

18.  and the fruit of the righteousness in peace is sown to those making peace.

Quite instinctive.

Comment

Wisdom could also be not doing something that you would later regret. I put my response on this side, because not doing is an action, as well.

tinseldove

17 Apr 2009 10:48

2 Comments

I like your point, I don't see how the rest of happened to overlook such point.
Well-put, thank you for your insight on this topic.
Well done.

jalapenos

17 Apr 2009 17:31

Comment

Wisdom is a compilation. Like taking the right path not purely by chance.

keepmindok

17 Apr 2009 08:43

12 Comments

W O W ............... great point!
I see now what you mean by that. yes. I very fervently concur with this observation of your's as made : the compilation is this :

we live x amount of years on this earth in this form of existence as humans we have x number of interactions with persons whom Synchronicity brings across our paths. We have always the choice always to endeavor to love and learn from them and because of them, or to just become embittered when they are gone or we choose to leave the interaction knowledge-experience; to become WISER or EMBITTERED that is the final analysis.

The compliation being our lifetime compiling of knowledge and EXPERIENCES. We then APPLY that knowledge the process by which is our WISDOM expressing itself through OPPORTUNITIES which Synchronicity gifts us.

But the CHOICE is always OUR'S ALONE.
That is why we cannot truly always blame any other for our misfortunes as we can choose to let bad stuff go not hold onto it.
In the end it is always our choice.
Our compilation is our Life Story.
Most of us have approximately 80 years in the which to apply knowledge/Wisdom.

jalapenos

17 Apr 2009 17:40

Comment

W O W ............... great point!
I see now what you mean by that. yes. I very fervently concur with this observation of your's as made : the compilation is this :

we live x amount of years on this earth in this form of existence as humans we have x number of interactions with persons whom Synchronicity brings across our paths. We have always the choice always to endeavor to love and learn from them and because of them, or to just become embittered when they are gone or we choose to leave the interaction knowledge-experience; to become WISER or EMBITTERED that is the final analysis.

The compliation being our lifetime compiling of knowledge and EXPERIENCES. We then APPLY that knowledge the process by which is our WISDOM expressing itself through OPPORTUNITIES which Synchronicity gifts us.

But the CHOICE is always OUR'S ALONE.
That is why we cannot truly always blame any other for our misfortunes as we can choose to let bad stuff go not hold onto it.
In the end it is always our choice.
Our compilation is our Life Story.
Most of us have approximately 80 years in the which to apply knowledge/Wisdom.

Comment

W O W ............... great point!
I see now what you mean by that. yes. I very fervently concur with this observation of your's as made : the compilation is this :

Comment

I'm truly sorry keep. I can't imagine you not knowing that many of the choices you make are easier than those someone else has to make.

I lived quite a few years with an indigenous tribe who's average life was trying to survive. Even though I lived amongst them, my choices were much easier than theirs. I'm talking about every stinking choice throughout every stinking day over the course of years.

I'm not trying to mess with you. I just can't relate to your way of thinking. It's not all our choice. When one speaks as if it is, they are saying that God is a sadist. The choices are there but the varying influences are also a fact.

This is all brought on by jalapenos saying, "as we can choose to let bad stuff go not hold onto it."

Tell that to the 7 year old girl who is kidnapped, raped, then killed while wondering where her parents are.

I just don't like wisdom made cheap. Wisdom is knowing the choices we make don't matter while making the right choices because we want to do the right thing. We want to do the right thing because it's what makes us happy.

Comment

Knowledge is knowing, but let me spin the wisdom, wisdom is applying the correct way of knowing. That is what I always thought of it to be.

Deep. And useful.

gottfried

17 Apr 2009 08:22

16 Comments

Wisdom is understanding that correct exists.

justsumguy

17 Apr 2009 23:01

Comment

You worded it correctly. lol

If there isn't an answer, it's all gobblygook. I detest the "opinion" argument. If I'm of the opinion that 2+2=197, my opinion is wrong. If I'm of the opinion that the sum is 4, my opinion is correct.

People confuse "taste" with "opinion". You may say spinach tastes bad. I may say it tastes good. Many would say we aren't right or wrong because it's our opinions. We aren't wrong because it's a matter of taste.

It's very simple. It's always very simple. It either is or isn't. There is an answer or there isn't. If there's an answer, it is correct. All other opinions are wrong once the answer is known. If the answer can't be known (a very popular thing to say nowadays), then it is all opinion.

At that point, wisdom is goofy, along with all reasoning.

If there is an answer, wisdom is understanding that answer.

If there is no answer, we can all marvel at the wisdom of coming up with the best opinion that suits the defining taste.

While fun, it's a little trite for my taste. lol

Comment

Ben Stein's documentary movie was actually quite boring in my opinion. I'm not exactly sure why. About half way through the film I was just dying of boredom. Maybe it was the fact that a majority of things said were completely irrelevant to evolution in general. The knowledge some of the people had of evolution was close to laughable. Many of the people interviewed held standpoints I pointed out in my other debate that indicate scientific illiteracy (one example being that they constantly referred to evolution as “Darwinism”). Most of the things said in the film, both by supporters of Intelligent Design and scientists alike, were more about someone’s personal beliefs concerning evolution rather than the actual scientific criteria of the theory itself. Feel free to watch the movie Gottfried. But be warned it’s full of garbage. You might need to hold a trash can while viewing it. The film might seem convincing to you in some ways, since you’re relatively knew to evolution. It was just a joke for me though. I would go through and debunk every claim made within the film if I wasn’t lazy.

Comment

Knowledge is knowing, wisdom is understanding.

finsch

17 Apr 2009 21:34

4 Comments

I know finsch was in a hurry while typing and I understand what finsch wanted to type.

I agree with finsch.

justsumguy

17 Apr 2009 23:00

Comment

No no, wisdom is not the person, so the wisdom doesn't make poor judgement. Poor judgement makes...poor judgement.

I got what you were saying, though. Given the chance to make a wise decision doesn't always mean that person will deliver justice to the chance.

You can do wisdom, or not.

And in term, yes everyone is wise.
Everyone has lived some experience, everyone has made poor decisions, everyone has regrets and so on. Wisdom has one face and can be shown in many. I believe doing is wisdom, rather than doing nothing.

We rarely regret the things we do, against the things we don't.

Continuing to live life, alone, is the wisest choice I've ever seen.

Learning how to live is the best decision.

As The Peaceful Warrior would say, There is no starting or stopping, only doing.

(Like you said it does come in varying degrees. Though, all my main point is that wisdom is doing. Because what Dan was trying to get across was that we learn to live life by living it and accepting its challenges, whether we fail, or succeed we learn something. Therefore he says it is wise to do. "Wisdom is Doing". I also apply the literal meaning; Wisdom is doing what you know.

If Knowledge Is Knowing, Then Wisdomedge is Wisdoming.

Using the Bible story, Satan knows God through objective experience. Satan does not know God at all because there is more to God than Satans objective perception.

Wisdom is knowing there is more to the story.

justsumguy

17 Apr 2009 20:37

7 Comments

no, but nice try my good Watson ;-I)

that would be "Discretion" and/or possible "Perceptiveness"........;-I)

jalapenos

17 Apr 2009 20:56

Comment

Knowledge and wisdom are pretty much the same thing. Doing is doing.

Evileye

17 Apr 2009 20:30

7 Comments

Common misconception

Specter87

18 Apr 2009 02:57

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