God Does Not Exist. - For & Against

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God Does Not Exist.

Proof of his absence is all around us, but is there any proof that he does exist.

Spartan76

18 Dec 2007 01:53

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I dont care to explain myself here, but God does not exist for many reasons and those who believe that he does are either ignorant of science or arrogant enough to not accept facts.

Frenchroll

13 Nov 2009 13:14

1 Comment

I don’t believe in god either but I feel like I should note that science does not disprove the notion of a god or creator of some kind; how could it. Science is a process for discovering the natural world. The supernatural is by definition something other than the natural world.

finsch

13 Nov 2009 13:57

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God doesnt exist!! Everything is caused by the big bang theory!!!! We are evolved from sea monkeys so there are isnt such thing in god maybe budda real but not god and the dalama lama is real and the hopes real but there is no such thing as a god. I believe there was such a person as jesus!!!!!

nichole

10 Nov 2009 15:02

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God, in the form created for him by man, is a fallacy. I wouldn't deny a higher power; in fact i'd be surprised and a little dissapointed if there wasn't but i'm afraid most religious concepts of him are manufactured by less than honest charlatennes.

Nicadeamus

08 Nov 2009 02:32

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God does not exist. We can agree that things that have no proof of existence does not exist in a physical matter. We should not hold god to a different standard. There simply isn't any physical evidence of his existence therefore he does not exist.

bdeuchler

28 Oct 2009 18:35

2 Comments

O YES HE DOES!!!

Who else could have created us out of stars? Don't talk so stupid!...;-)

Tomcat

28 Oct 2009 18:47

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There is no proof for the existance of God.
And you cannot prove a negative.
And given that the burden of proof lies with the person claiming something, we shouldn't have to prove anything.
Logical reason is:
Person 1: "I have a baseball"
Person 2: "Prove it"
Person 1 pulls out a baseball and thus proves himself.
Person 2: "Awesome, let's go play catch"

Religious reason
Person 1: "I have a baseball"
Person 2: "Prove it"
Person 1: "You can't prove I don't"
Person 2 walks away because that argument is nowhere near substantial.
It's as substantial as eating a seed.
A single seed.
Neither are substanital.

ScottyRAWR

25 Sep 2009 00:50

5 Comments

watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldHF6PFUukw

-_-

01 Oct 2009 23:06

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So much around us is proof that there is no god. If there was a god, why would hitler have killed all the jews? AND WHY DID MY DOG DIE!

Nathan95

09 Sep 2009 09:38

5 Comments

Your dog died because everyhing must DIE! Just because i believe in god doesn't mean my dog will live forever. But if you do turn to God You realize that death is just a gateway to eternal life.

xLEO725x

11 Sep 2009 04:40

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Theres no proof i mean anyone could've written the bible like some random drunk guy

bubbleboom

18 Aug 2009 04:49

1 Comment

If a random drunk guy wrote the Bible then it would definitely be proof there is a God.

justsumguy

24 Sep 2009 05:56

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When I was a child I believed, because I followed after my parents' example. When I grew up and began asking questions...I began to realize there are no answers...at least no sufficient answers. I certainly do not disrespect anybody who does believe; that is their privilege just as it is mine not to believe.

My biggest problem believing in an all loving, all knowing god whom supposedly created us in his own image, is that he allows such evil, sickness, wars, etc to go on. That if he is all knowing, then why did he give us free will because he had to know we'd screw that up. And how did the earth populate so well from Noah and the humans he had with him on the ark? Things don't add up...The bible is far to vague and can be interrupted by many angels...clever men, who wrote the bible...and yes, it was written by men...and a rather successful book...top seller..made god a lot of money...or made and makes somebody a lot of money. I wonder if god has the copyright on it????

I figured I'd just go ahead and jump in the deep end with one of my first debates...Am looking for a friend who suggested this site...and I know I will find him here...hopefully he will read this and make himself known to me...BS you around here somewhere?

Dstrange

12 Aug 2009 04:17

1 Comment

You posted on the wrong side. This is debate 1.01.
The author of the topic made an idiotic claim that cannot be substantiated. Whether a god exists or not cannot be proven.

You didn’t make the mistake of saying whatever god the author is talking about does not exist. If you did I would say you are being an idiot.

Anyway, given what you said…you should have posted on the smart side and declared yourself not believing that any god exists but you can’t prove it.

justsumguy

24 Sep 2009 06:01

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I've never been able to justify a belief in any sort of higher power(s). I'm also not comfortable admitting that I don't know either way about the existence of a deity, because I don't really see any logical reason to leave the possibility of belief on the table. I see people on here saying roughly the equivalent of "How do you know? Have you done a complete search of the universe and not found a god?". There's also the common "You can't prove a god DOESN'T exist!" argument. These two arguments can be used against any sort of mythical/hypothetical thing. If I questioned everything in my life this way, I would be leaving room in my mind for every Bigfoot-esque concept in existence.

Frankly, I am comfortable with just not knowing certain things about the beginnings of our universe and humankind. To me the existence of a supernatural power(s) is just another theory humans have come up with regarding the genesis of the world, the universe, and man. A few others include the Big Bang and evolution. At the moment, I am inclined to believe more in these than the existence of a god simply because of certain proofs. Notice that I say "believe more" than "believe completely". I have complete faith in neither, as parts of both theories have been proven wrong by the very scientists who formulated their creation. They have been changed and tested (and continue to be) by the international scientific community. Theories don't claim to have all of the answers, but they do stand up to logic (and when aspects of them don't they are thrown out the window). The concept of a higher power does the opposite.

Basically, I'd rather admit to not knowing about my origins (as a human and as a resident in our solar system) than believe in something that isn't logical, which is why god doesn't exist in my life.

P.S. If anyone has evidence against the theory of evolution I'm plenty open to it. I completely accept microevolution but I'm still trying to find more proofs for macro so if you have any thoughts please share. Thanks!

mofomofo

03 Aug 2009 05:11

1 Comment

Head on over to my somewhat older debate entitled "Evolution Possesses A Wide Variety Of Evidence In Its Support That Apparently Not Many People Are Aware Of". I listed forty documented accounts of speciation (the evolutionary process of a new species branching off from another). That, in its most basic sense, would be considered macroevolution at work.

Hizashi

03 Aug 2009 05:28

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There is no personal creator God who cares if you are 'sinning' and wants to send you to hell. That's fantasy. I can't say with absolute certainty that there is not a superior power that may have created the universe. It's one really easy explanation to explain where all this came from, and life itself. It's not based on anything more than a hunch though, and it comforts people. Plus... Where the heck is God if he does exist? So... I'm about 99% sure there is no God. Science and reason show us how things work in the world, and nothing that has happened required a creator or God to make it happen. Rather than ask how can the universe seem to come from nothing (common misconception), ask yourself how a supreme all-knowing force can just exist, where does that come from? Oh of course... God doesn't need an origin, does he? It's a simple way to fill in gaps in our knowledge without using our brains so much, to say that God just made it all. The evidence for God not existing is much greater than the evidence of his existence.

Sepheryn

14 Jul 2009 19:22

1 Comment

Lol…I have to let you off the hook since you went with 99% sure even though you posted on a side did not leave that kind of option which would indicate you are a little jumpy so off you go.

justsumguy

24 Sep 2009 06:08

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There is evidence were we came from,but if god created everything were did he come from?

rclexar

11 May 2009 15:01

2 Comments

If he is 'God' then should he be bound by our values of time and place? What makes a God? If he created us and the world we live in then he would rule over time itself no? Just because we can't prove something, does not mean it does not exist. Can you prove yourself? Can you prove Caeser? Can you prove hell or heaven or that humans evolved from apes? Can you prove God exists or can you prove that he does not exist?

IBCam

03 Jun 2009 16:54

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Although I never really was religious to begin with, in recent years I began to lean towards a sort of skeptical agnosticism. However, if pressed to choose a side, I would certainly consider myself a basic atheist. I really don't believe in God in the traditional sense-I don't believe that God is an old bearded guy sitting on a cloud that can poof a donkey(for example) into existence. I just feel as if there is less and less reason for me to buy into the snake oil that organized religions try to sell me. I feel very good about my beliefs(or lack thereof)-they feel right to me. However, I am not the stereotypical depressed, bitter atheist that you may see in your mind's eye-far from it, in fact. There are so many other good things to believe in, what should keep me from getting up in the morning?

KRC_71092

09 May 2009 02:43

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There's the odd thought of "what if?" but nobody's given me any proof. I have just as much evidence that the universe is actually a toilet.

@Homestar: That's completely incorrect. For example, I could reason that Bob is a robot, because I've never seen him eat or sleep. Or, I could lop off his arm, noting the flesh, blood, and bone inside, proving him to be human. Which is more convincing?

RoboHippo

03 May 2009 20:44

2 Comments

Reasoning is more powerful then evidence.

Homestar

07 May 2009 00:00

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Yes, i find it really hard to buy into the whole religion bullcrap. If God does exist, than who created him?

kagome

16 Apr 2009 20:30

2 Comments

There are at least 2 people who believe in a God that has no beginning or end. An eternal God.

There are at least 3 people who find it really hard to buy into the "people are not eternal" bullcrap.

justsumguy

23 Apr 2009 23:29

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There is no solid proof that god exists, Therefore until proven he does, He doesn't.

Remember, 'Innocent until 'Proven' Guilt.'

BenXx

12 Apr 2009 21:50

2 Comments

There is no solid proof that God does not exist. Therefore, until proven He doesn't, He does.

Remember, Innocent until Proven Guilty.

Am I glad I don't have to rely on humans to prove or disprove.

justsumguy

23 Apr 2009 23:32

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Well when you get right down to it... No. If he did exist then why doesn't he do something about the global financial crisis and terrorism?

Fredman01

27 Mar 2009 23:57

6 Comments

Humans supposedly exist. Why don't they do something about it?

justsumguy

28 Mar 2009 00:03

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If one is thinking logically one has to assume that God doesn't exist until there dependable evidence that He does. Just as the old axiom goes 'Innocent until proven guilty', one must follow the rule of 'not existing until proven existing'.

Shinsetsu

27 Mar 2009 22:29

4 Comments

To think that everyone who believes in God, does so without dependable evidence, is extreme arrogance.

"One" has to assume that "one" has dependable evidence while "another" doesn't. Or one or the other is extremely arrogant.

justsumguy

28 Mar 2009 00:08

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I agree if god truly existed then we would have more resources and we would have more help

Fenris

23 Mar 2009 14:52

3 Comments

lol...well maybe we would have more help if you believed in God.

justsumguy

25 Mar 2009 04:09

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You are probably thinking of the God of Christianity or other mainstream religion. I don't believe that god exists. I do however believe in many gods and goddesses but they are NOT benevolent, omnipresent or omnipotent.

DarkAngel

13 Mar 2009 21:59

1 Comment

Define what the qualifiers for divinity are. In case I loose my job I want to know what I'd need to break into that job market.

finsch

16 Mar 2009 19:45

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God might exist but no one knows.

swimmer724

09 Mar 2009 18:19

7 Comments

How do you know?

justsumguy

13 Mar 2009 22:25

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God does exist man

luigi123

02 Mar 2009 12:25

2 Comments

TJ you are lying, your brother doesn't see sepernatural things and your teacher didn't get pushed

computerz

03 Mar 2009 10:12

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I have yet to see one good reason that suggests one does.

Evileye

24 Feb 2009 15:53

32 Comments

Give me one good reason you exist.

Also, you voted yes. Prove God doesn't exist. You're a fan of proof. Come on baby! Let's see you finally put your money where your mouth is.

Prove it.

When you can't....we all know you can't,
I'll be like you and act like a little brat claiming that God has to exist because you can't prove God doesn't exist.

Actually, I won't. It's too stupid for me.

justsumguy

26 Feb 2009 00:47

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Evileyes comment regarding God Does Not Exist:

"I have yet to see one good reason that suggests one does"

This would suggest that Evileye bases the criteria on reason.

JSG asks 
"Give me one good reason you exist."

This would give definition to Evileyes use of the word "reason". The REASON this has to be done is that Evileye is unaware of the different definitions given to words by our scholars in dictionaries. Evileye thinks that Evileye uses words that have only one meaning, that which is known by Evileye.

Evileye doesn't address the main point of debate and JSG has to remind Evileye.

Evileye gives the reason and claims it the best there is: "One good reason would be that my dad got my mum pregnant – the best reason there is."

Here are a couple definitions of the word "reason" from a few of our most noteworthy dictionaries:

(n.) The basis or motive for an action, decision, or conviction.

1 a: a statement offered in explanation or justification  b: a rational ground or motive  c: a sufficient ground of explanation or of logical defense ; especially : something (as a principle or law) that supports a conclusion or explains a fact  d: the thing that makes some fact intelligible : cause

I would have to go with definition d: from the Webster dictionary for the best fit with Evileyes "reason".

In other words, since Evileye is a product of human parents, the human birth process explains the existence of Evileye.

Since the end product of the human birth process is the death of the human, then the outcome of Evileyes reason is death.

Evileye does not see this as one good reason that would suggest the existence of a God.

I say Evileye doesn't have one good reason to suggest the existence of Evileye and that by Evileyes definition, Evileye is a temporary being with a temporary existence. Here today, gone tomorrow with gone being NOTHING. I see no reason at all (good or bad) that Evileye exists. For all practical purposes, Evileye does not exist other than there was a momentary blip on the existence sonar.

In summation, Evileye saying Evileye sees no good reason is not a viable argument.

Comment

The bush is your definition of reality. All anyone can do is beat around it. That would include science and your frail discernment of what the scientific method is describing.

You don't get it. I'm am playing by your rules, not mine. You define your existence by what certainly ends in your death. You have nothing, I repeat...NOTHING, that suggests anything past your death. Your reality is that reality continues without you being real. Is there any possible way for that to sink into your thick skull?

OK. I'm playing by your rules of reality. You and I are temporary blips on the sonar of reality. While there is a CAUSE for our temporary existence, there is no REASON. To pretend that the REASON is that we are woven forever into the fabric of existence while not being aware of such a thing forever...is no good reason.

I agree with you. By your definition, there is no good reason. None. There is cause and effect. For that which is YOUR REASONING, the effect is DEATH. The end of your reasoning.

This is why you are one of the most narrow-minded people on this site. You share this distinction with a couple other atheists and about 8 religious people.

Those religious people are the same as you. They're reality is based on a god and a saviour which obviously is not reasonable.

You and your atheist compadres are aware of this. The narrow-minded religious are aware of your lack of reason.

Peas in a pod.

Comment

Ha ha ha! Oh yes, the old ‘if you don’t agree with me you must be narrow-minded’ routine. I like it.
Now let’s pull this conversation back into the realm of sanity. The debate is whether or not a god exists. I say there is no good or plausible reason why one should believe that one does. You, on the other hand, profess to know that one does. Somehow, when asked how you know this or asked to demonstrate a good reason why you believe this you constantly start talking about me instead. I know I’m interesting, but at some point I’m hoping to wear you down and actually get you to address what has been asked of you. Unfortunately you constantly avoid it and beat around the bush. The bush is not my reality; it is everyone’s reality because it is reality.
I understand that you have hit upon a theory about the existence of a god that convinces you and that you don’t like being questioned about that belief and so rely on various forms of prevarication that include trying to redefine words and turn certain elements back on the questioner, in this case, me. This can only lead to the rational conclusion that you really can’t answer the question and that this is so galling for you when people don’t accept your theory that you then have to start doing the bush bit.
As far as I’m concerned, it is impossible to prove it either way and we can only go where evidence and reason leads. Evidence and reason leads to the conclusion that it is very unlikely for there to be god as we understand them to be. I repeat that you profess to know a god exists. How? Well, it’s obvious you can’t, because you refuse to come up with a plausible answer. All I wish for is a bit of honesty and for you to admit that you don’t know a god exists and that you just like to believe that one does because it suits you. Now, is that too much to ask?
Also I have never called myself an atheist or any other label; I just ask people to back up what they say and then make up my own mind. If you can furnish me with something concrete about why a god exists instead of waffling on about me not existing and me not being able to get what amounts to nothing through my alleged thick skull, I’ll happily change my mind. Put up.

Comment

The debate is NOT whether a God does or does not exist.

The rest of your first paragraph was specifically addressed by me so it is as stupid as you not knowing what the debate is about.

As for your second paragraph. It's retarded. I obviously (for at least the 20th time with you) say one good reason that SUGGESTS (you using that word is hilarious) the existence of a God would be that I don't see the ending of a person being reasonable.

You don't see that as one good reason. OK. You don't see your reasoning going beyond your death.

Then, of course while you try to be smart, you're wrong again. I have never said anything about proving God on this site. I've said a lot on this site. I say just the opposite.

When I say I know God, I say it because to say I believe in God would be a lie. Sorry. I know God. How do I know God? I have a personal relationship with God.

Now pay attention. The fact that I know God is personal and cannot be used in debate. There's a difference between me saying I know God as a personal fact and using it to support a debate. I don't do it. In fact, I debate against those who do it.

Since my knowing God is personal, if you ask what PROOF of God would be to you, I would say that it's YOU. Not me. Not anyone else.

You say you are not one good reason that SUGGESTS there is a God. OK. That's all I'm saying. I don't agree with you. I think your existence suggests there is a God.

That's certainly not a knock on you!!!! lol
I think you're eternal. I think God created you and loves you. I can't prove it to you. I can tell you I know it about myself. I'm not saying that to suggest you are lacking. I'm simply saying I can tell you that there's one person on this planet who thinks it's so.

You can say I'm delusional. I think what I think for millions of different reasons. I have no problem with that. I will debate them. My responses will be based on what I know about myself.  What else do you want me to base them on?

We are debating one thing here. Your statement that you haven't seen one good reason that SUGGESTS the existence of a God.

Heck, you're not asking for proof. One good reason that suggests. OK. You living eternally. Personally, I don't even know why we could possibly think of such a thing. Why can we? It would seem to suggest something.

I'm not saying it has to be. I'm not saying it's proof. I'm just saying that it is a good reason that would suggest.

Just say it's not and I'll say your death suggests there is no reason and we'll end it.

Comment

lol....good try. 
Does he speak to you?
By my definition: Yes
By your definition: No

Do you speak to this god?
By my definition: Yes
By your definition: No

Can you see this god?
By my definition: Yes
By your definition: No

Does this god do things for you?
By my definition: Yes
By your definition: No

Explain how it works?
By my definition it wouldn't work to you.
By your definition there's obviously no reason to explain it because all the answers were no.

If not, how do you know one is there to have a relationship with in the first place?

Since the answers for me were "yes", I don't have to answer the question.
Since your answer would be "no", you can't know there is one to have a relationship with in the first place.

What you need to try and understand is that those who "claim" (by your perspective) to have relationships with God do not for a second believe what you are saying about yourself any more than you believe what I'm saying about myself.

For the sake of debate, I come from the standpoint that what you are saying about yourself is the way it is.

That is the monumental difference between the two of us. Same problem with Cephus. You either are unable or simply refuse to assume something could be true for the sake of debate.

It's the same as the person saying that abortion is murder or the killing of the innocent. Once that is said, there is no room for debate. Or the people who use the Bible as proof for there being a God. Debate over. You are doing the same thing. I think it's in response to religious people who say outlandish things.

But you and a few others are doing the exact same thing. You want to kill any debate regarding God with "there is no room for debate". Not one good reason.

It's a ludicrous notion. My belief in God has been deemed reasonable by many who don't believe in God on here. Being reasonable is not proof. There is no proof one way or the other.

I have proven that I am reasonable when it comes to believing and not believing in God. In fact, I think there are great reasons for not believing in God. Saying there isn't one good reason is not one of those reasons and linking it to religion is even worse. That's you.

Comment

Does he speak to you?

One example would be God speaks to me whenever I question God. I question, thought is introduced into my mind from God. You would say that's me. I would agree with you. Only difference is, I'm having a conversation with an imaginary figure that has perfect attributes. When you ask questions in your mind, you answer them with something that is not defined by perfect attributes. You're having a conversation with yourself defined by the same attributes we all know but without my imaginary friend. I simply have more to go on than you. You could do the same without an imaginary friend. You could have your conversation with yourself, attributing perfect answers to your questions. If you did this, I think you would be talking to God and even come to realize it.

Do you speak to this god?
same response

Can you see this god?
Same response with a different twist. Instead of speaking with the my imaginary friend, I see my imaginary friend when I see the imaginary people around me who are eternal. Again, you could do the same with yourself by seeing people as eternal. If you did this, I would say you were looking God's way and probably come to realize it.

Does this god do things for you?
Yeah. This imaginary friend created me and has made it possible for me to live for eternity in perfect. This imaginary friend loves me more than I can love anything.

That one you're going to be hard pressed to do on your own. You may feel some sort of emotional deeliflop inside of you and share it with your loved ones or whatever you call the people who you feel some sort of deelipflop towards, but your temporal deeliflops, while certainly deeliflopable...heck...I don't know how to associate love with someone like you. finsch has a pretty good hold of it for himself but I'll have to leave it at deeliflop for you.

That's how it works for me. An imaginary friend who created me so that I can live eternally with that imaginary friend. Everything I ponder, is thought through a perfect eternity prepared for me.

You ponder. Everything you think is thought through this reality of what is not imaginary. Same as me, just without the love of my imaginary friend.

But that's ok. My imaginary friend loves you as much as me! So if pondering with yourself based on your reality is fine with you...great. If you reach the point where it's not, then you might consider my imaginary friend. If you're going to imagine something, I would suggest imagining the best possible thing.

Until then, keep knocking the imaginary and I'll make fun of the reality we share which is death. Scientifically...1000%...proven.

Comment

Oh dear, you really can’t take it can you? You haven’t hurt my feelings, I did think I’d hurt yours the way you were throwing the old toys out of the pram and resorting to your usual round of name-calling. Where do you get this stuff? You just make it up as you go along. LMFAO, ROFL, oh, and SWALK, just for good measure. Now we’ve got the usual jsg inanities out of the way, I’ll continue (you goofball).

OK, let’s see if we can draw this to a conclusion as you obviously want to bash on regardless of the fact that you’re bringing nothing new to the table and are just repeating yourself. I’ll try and explain what I mean so you can understand. Unfortunately it will involve me having to repeat some of what I said before, but that’s what you seem to like.

Yes, I understand that you imbue your imaginary friend with more significance than I would. Yes I would doubt any god that was not available to ‘scientific’ or human scrutiny. Yes, the Universe has yet to reveal its full nature to inquiring humans, and yes, it may be that perhaps it never will. Yes, I would doubt the existence of god/s even if it/they came to me in my dreams and started talking to me, even if it/they filled me with some euphoric sense of understanding or peace, or any other emotional state that could easily and demonstrably be duplicated with chemicals we’ve already found in the brain and body; yes, even if it/they knocked on my door, and slapped my face for being such a dick. Yes, I think that to respond to that kind of revelation or epiphany without any available corroboration from ‘reality’ is silly, deluded, self-obsessed, lazy, arrogant, pointless, etc, etc. Yes, I believe my mind is rooted within my corporeal self. Yes, I believe that when I die my body will rot away, and help construct new living stuff, human or otherwise, unless conditions necessary for life have ended by then, and that when I die my mind will wink out of existence as though it never was although it may have passed on thoughts and experiences to a new generation of short-term minds. But no, it is not axiomatic, as you constantly suggest, that life can have no meaning under those circumstances, that it’s just equivalent to crawling around in the slime, waiting for the inevitable end. Why the hell should it be? Despite its limited lifespan it’s capable of great things. Of course, life is full of miserable stuff, tragedy, pain and all that, it is by its nature savage, competitive and selfish, but rational analysis still allows for other things, which derive from our experiences and our ability to make patterns from those experiences which may or may not have any meaning outside of themselves. So what if they don’t? What if our future leaders decide it’s convenient for us to be shoved into cages like factory farmed pigs and plugged into some economically productive interface for our entire life? We would want to fight against that happening even if evolution was tending that way. Would we think oh well, at least there’s perfect eternal stuff somewhere in the distance? How the hell would you know what perfect is? You say you don’t believe in that, you know it. To believe it may be human. To know it is either insane or deluded. Maybe you don’t think you’re human. Then why the name, justsumguy? You can’t recognize perfect, it has no meaning, unless it be nothingness, and there’s no such thing as that. To prove that your god is perfect is to prove its non-existence. As for eternal, well there’s something in that. Just not me or you. Bits and pieces floating around is all there is, joining up and disintegrating again. Eternally. Call that god if you want, it would be a god we could conceive of, but it would be just a name. It may be a closed system, is that the perfection you mean? Does it have any personal interest in you? Why should it? You’re random, from a human perspective. Personally I think that’s exciting and interesting enough. Reality. It’s quite big.

In conclusion I would like to add that you have a theory of the existence of a god that works for you and I understand that you believe this theory. Well great, I’m happy for you. The problem is that you think you’ve hit upon something the rest of us can’t comprehend or some fantastic truth and it bugs the hell out of you when other people don’t take you seriously and don’t prostrate themselves before your superior wisdom. In fact, I haven’t seen one person on this site who you have convinced yet.

Let me spell it out to you. By your own admission, your so-called god is nothing more than an imaginary friend, your words not mine. Well, as far as I am concerned it is really no different to all the other religious apologists out there and their faith-based theories, because once you start to question it, it doesn’t hold water. It always comes back to the imaginary friend, I repeat, your description not mine.

Comment

At least jsg has got a friend, and his friend exists within his imagination. If one concludes that his God is the creator, then this fact alone makes his mind very creative. Because one can only conclude that the spark of creativity, and imagination dwells within.

You remind me of an old navy captain Evileye. Steering a course through the pitch blackness of a stormy night. Who all of a sudden sees a faint light dead ahead on collision course with his ship. Of course you immediately send out a proud commanding signal: ''change your course ten degrees east,'' Whereby, I would humbly, and discreetly send you one back: ''change your course ten degrees west.''
I can plainly now see that my signal would greatly anger a person of your proud limited abilities, and that you would immediately send a stronger prouder signal back telling me that you are '' a formidable very intelligent navy captain. And, that I should change my course immediately.'' However, I would humbly ask you to change your course to ten degrees west again.'' I realise that this would once again make you furious at such insubordination at your highly polished command. And, that in- turn you might even send me another proud signal implying that you are the captain of a mighty battle ship, and lay it on the line that you ''are not prepared to change course!'' However, I would then carefully and gently explain to you that ''I am a Lighthouse!'' If you get mi drift.?...;-) And that Justsumguy has actually seen the light! I can clearly now see why you live in a gloomy dim dark world. the light must be almost blinding you. Sad ,,,;-( very very Sad, indeed!...;-(

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I have to commend Evileye for sharing how Evileye thinks.

In his spite he misunderstands me. I have never started a debate or commentary which is critical or examines the beliefs or thought processes of anyone who does not believe as I do or simply does not believe in god/gods.

While Evileye describes Evileyes beliefs about what may or may not happen to whatever Evileye thinks Evileye is or isn't.....Evileye is obviously consumed with being angry with those who don't share Evileyes beliefs. Evileye is eaten up with it.

While I understand someone with Evileyes beliefs being fed up with religious people who want to force their morality upon society or speak of eternal punishment and the like for those who don't believe as they do....Evileye is so eaten up by them Evileye is oblivious to the fact that I feel the same way as Evileye does.

Evileyes arguments are moot with me. They are ficticious.
Evileye is as dogmatic and has as narrow-minded a belief system as godfighter. Evileyes belief system, while being defined by what may or may not be is CONCLUSIVE in it's DEMAND that my beliefs cannot be true.

Knowing my creator more than I know anything that Evileye describes (and to suggest that all of us do not know what Evileye describes is goofy) is part of my belief. Sorry. I hope that doesn't offend anyone. As I have already explained to Evileye, my knowing is personal. It is not used as proof or support in debate unless I am DEBATING WITH SOMEONE ELSE WHO MAKES THE SAME CLAIM.

If I say I know God more than I can know anything to do with this death, I am saying that because I believe in ME being eternal, my belief is not based on what may or may not be. My belief is defined by eternity and perfect. Evileye can say I can't base my belief on these things because I don't know what they are. Evileye is offended by me believing I know what perfect and eternal are. Not me saying I'm perfect. I don't pretend to be. Evileye hates the fact that my belief is that I know I am eternal. It doesn't matter that I believe Evileye is eternal. It doesn't matter that I believe Evileye has the same benefits of my beliefs whether Evileye believes them or not.

Evileye is still offended. By what????????????????????????

I am of no religion. I am not looking to convert. I debate more harshly on here with the religious than with the atheists.

I stand against Evileyes CONCLUSIVE STATEMENTS which are based on EVILEYES NON-CONCLUSIVE BELIEFS. It is the height of not being reasonable.

It has nothing to do with Evileyes life, beliefs or morality. It has everything to do with what Evileye says about others beliefs systems. The audacity to say people believe this or that because they are weaker or not as sharp as Evileye. I do the same to the the religious that I do to Evileye.

No Evileye...you don't even know what the game is.

Again, I do commend you for finally speaking about your beliefs.

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Even if we do not believe in a God are not, one thing for sure.....there is someone greater than man kind.....Look at the flowers, their scientific structure, the formation and change of a caterpillar to a butterfly......no man has been able to do these things......they have only been able to do this in their brains and on electronics, but not in actual life....Christians believe in a figure they call God and they say he said, that mans knowledge will increase as time goes by and it is a fact that mans knowledge has increase......that really brings one to think....we say that it is a statement anyone could make.....but in the first place...how are we able to think?...through our brains......how do our brains work?.....cells, chromosomes, microchondria.....how did we get a brain? Where did it come from? .....scientifically we say that a collision formed this earth....where did the planets that caused the collision come from?.......can't be answered....the same way we cant answer where did God come from?........but look at the concepts Christians speak of....they speak of forgiveness, loving your enemies..........YOU GOT TO BE KIDDIN ME.......there is no way in this world that a concept like that, could come from any man OR scientist.......it is beyond human nature......even the animals....we are just like them, cuz wen your nature kick in.....you tend to fight argue not love and forgive........how did air come here? Where did you get the ability to make decisions???? Are opinions??????no one controls you.......you had to get that from somewhere...........just how these questions cannot be answered, is the same way we cant answer why you cant prove God is real.....you just have to look around and think of what could of made our surroundings?....what could have made those things and make something..........and last.....who r what could have made something that has no existence?......there is somethings man can't do..........there must be something greater than us and i believe it's God

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Give me proof...any proof that'd sustain a scientific test and I will believe in god.

Jeronimo

07 Feb 2009 12:30

7 Comments

Wrong. The debate says God does not exist. You voted yes. Prove it.

There's another stupid debate that says God Exists. You need to go to that one and say what you just said.

justsumguy

08 Feb 2009 04:37

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People only believe in god because they need to justify life. And other things.

mariafu

29 Jan 2009 02:49

9 Comments

Since you ended the first claim with a period and started another claim that could include an undetermined amount of causes...I'll have to let that one slide.

justsumguy

29 Jan 2009 03:40

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There is no evidence for god. Not one single bit. Take your time, read the entire opposing side of this thread and you will not find one single thing that could be considered scientific evidence. Stack that against evolution, or the big bang, or any other modern scientific theory and you understand why I cannot accept the existence of a god.

Ambrose

08 Jan 2009 10:23

24 Comments

Why is the only acceptable evidence that of a scientific nature?

SlyOne

10 Jan 2009 04:10

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I'm not sure how you find asking for proof "silly."  If I claim that unicorns exist, and on top of that that you will go to hell if you don't believe in unicorns, and on top of that that the unicorns tell me that homosexuality is wrong, and abortion is wrong, and a bunch of other things are wrong, would you not ask me to prove that the unicorns exist in order to back up all of my ridiculous claims?  Yes, of course you would.  So, now it is upon you to explain to me why god is different from the unicorns in this scenario.  People are basing their entire lives and trying to control the lives of others based on what they think the unicorns (god) is telling them.  It's really quite scary.

I will agree that the topic is a little strong.  I cannot truly say "god does not exist" because I don't know that for sure.  But there is no evidence for god's existence, therefore it is the rational position to not believe and require evidence in order to believe.  You repeat one of the most tired defenses: that I need to prove god does not exist.  No, I don't.  I'm not the one making any claims.  The author of this post made the claim that god does not exist.  If you want to get nit-picky about things, I suggest you bring it up with him/her.  I, however, simply hold the position that I won't believe in something unless there is reason to believe it.  There is no reason to believe in god.

I find it very humorous that you would attack the fact that someone is making a definite claim about the existence of god when that is exactly what you yourself have done, along with everyone else on the pro-god side of this topic.  I had to be on one side or the other, and again, while I can't say with 100 percent certainty god does not exist, it's a whole lot more likely than the other possibility.  Most people on the other side won't even acknowledge the possibility of god not existing. Therefore, I will remain on this side of the debate, regardless of whether the claim of proof provided in the topic is not actually proof.

Finally, you think my knowledge of science is limited?  Based on what, exactly?  This has thus far been nothing more than a philosophical debate, and when god is concerned science isn't particularly relevant considering science has discovered nothing that can be considered evidence of a deity.  If you wish to debate, fine, but I'm not going to continue if you attempt to insult an aspect of my intelligence that has not even come into play.

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lol....ok....I have to address the silliness one by one...out of logic order....what the heck...It's not like I haven't had to do it before on here...

paragraph 1: You need to research scientific discussions related to the words "proof", "theory" and "fact". They are quite lengthy. The attributes that you are attributing to a belief in god/gods are quite narrow. What you are describing is human nature and how humans use things to justify their opinions. I am of the strong persuasion that humans do not need beliefs in god/gods to fulfill their needs to that end. I believe in a perfect, eternal God. I do not think you are going to Hell, I am not interested in saying homosexuality or abortion is wrong nor am I interested in telling you about a bunch of things that are wrong. So, you have a problem here. Your assertions, while certainly being grounded based on "many" people do not hold true for all. Now you have to back to your research about gathering information in science and rethink your conclusion. Humans are scary. They don't need to use beliefs in god/gods to be scary.

paragraph 2: You're not agreeing with me. This topic is in no way strong. It is one of the weakest on this site. There's another one...something like God Exists and I can prove it that is a tie in weakness. In fact, that's where you need to be. Quite easy to vote against that claim.

Again, as far as your use of the word evidence...for those of us who study science...it is absurd. I have news for you. Science does not think that the observable universe(s) (which is the ONLY thing that science can begin to know) is the only thing that exists. It is simply the only thing science can examine.

As far as you only believing in the observable universe...I'll have to attribute that to either immaturity or ignorance (and I'm not talking about god/god's) There is simply much about the human "being" which science (up to this point) has not begun to understand or even have a clue on how to explore. Quite amazing when you think about it. Science can detect neutrenos which are so small, there are trillions passing through you every second. Science is within a second of the big bang. Science is within very small increments to absolute zero temperature. Compare all that with what it knows of the human "being".

Now you want to say there is no evidence of something other than your reality, which is defined by empirical evidence. in my opinion, your reality is death. Death is certain for you.

There are people by the millions and millions on this planet, throughout all of history, throughout practically (if not every) culture who have believed in something other than death for their "being".

You can attribute this to being afraid of dying. Of not wanting to accept death. Of feeling alone. We can come up with millions of guesses for this type of behaviour.

Fact is, when it's all said and done...your answer is death. Frankly, there are those of us who see no reason in death. It defies our reasoning. It suggests to us there was no reason to reason. You can point to your reality as if I don't know it. Silly though. I know your reality. I live here. I will die here. Same as you. We could compare lives. What I've done. What you've done. How the belief in a perfect, eternal God has effected my life. How your opinions have shaped yours.

I wouldn't pretend to attribute your opinions to your life in an attempt to examine the validity of your opinions. At least not from here. I would suggest you not do the same with mine. You might would like the life I have lived. You might would have enjoyed being there.

And no (and it hacks me off that you want to act intelligent and ignore your weaknesses) I did not use a defense. I pointed out your folly in voting on this side of an argument that has no chance of success. It has nothing to do with whether there is a god or not. It is the claim of proof of absence that is it's downfall.

For your information, there are some great arguments against the existence of God. I could make your argument much better than you are.

As for you having no reason to believe in my God....I'm not going to argue that point. It's a difference between you and I. I can accept you not having a reason for my God. You cannot accept that I have a reason to believe in my God. I can give you many reasons. They won't mean anything to you. You and I are different. Either one of us is lying or one of us is deceived or both. Or we are simply different. (I would invite you to check out my Opposite Humans and my Adam and Eve were the first humans with souls debates).

Your 3rd paragraph is not talking to me. Kinda weird for a bright boy.

Paragraph 4: Like I said, you need to do some research.

Your second post indicates you need to do some more research.

Look into sciences advances on absolute truth and fact.

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“First of all, that there is anything supernatural. We simply do not know. Therefore, to say that there is anything supernatural is a baseless assumption”

I never claimed the supernatural undoubtedly existed, nor does it need to for my statement to be valid. If the supernatural does exist, and pertains to what the definition of the word means, science does not address it. If it does not exist in any way whatsoever and is only a figurative concept brought about by the imagination, science does not, and cannot, address it. Either way, science does not address the supernatural.

“Secondly, he assumes that if there was a supernatural, that science would not be able to study it. Unfortunately, as we know nothing of the nature of anything supernatural, or indeed even if there is a supernatural, it is impossible to know whether or not science would be able to study it.”

IF there was a supernatural event, in keeping with what the word is defined as meaning, science would not be able to study it. If science could study an event that were defined as supernatural, it wouldn’t be supernatural since the definitions of science limit it to the study of the natural world. I like how you try to ignore the definitions of words entirely while making your statements.

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"OK i will stack it against the big bang "theory" (which doesn't mean that it actually is, it's just a guess backed with "scientific" evidence)"

Okay, I'll go ahead and correct you since you don't know what you're talking about Leo. I’ll address at least one flaw with literally everything you said about scientific topics.

“Recently scientists have said that the universe used to be as small as an atom.”

Smaller than an atom to be precise. The universe was infinitely dense in the past.

“OK that is believable right. Well where in the hell did the atom come from. Nothing just comes into existence.”

The universe didn’t use to be an atom. It use to be smaller than one. Where the universe originally came from isn’t a concern of the Big Bang theory. It’s irrelevant actually. The evidence shows the universe use to be that small. The evidence shows that the has universe expanded ever since then.

“Science now can tell you that. Something has to create it.”

Science doesn’t tell you that. Your opinion does.

“The atom that supposedly exploded and grew into the universe didn't just randomly come into existence, something or if you consider god to be like a person someone created that atom.”

Says the guy who doesn’t know much about the Big Bang.

“Time didnt just randomly begin. Something started time itself.”

Prove time didn’t just randomly begin. Better yet, prove that the occurrence of the big Bang couldn’t have begun time.

“I personally don't believe that once that atom exploded it grew into the size of the universe and "random" chemical reactions created the planets (including earth) and life just began randomly over time.”

It doesn’t matter what you believe. Science goes where the evidence points, not where people believe it should go.

“Also i don't see how there could be so many "accidental" mutations that we would "evolve" from bacteria.”

Not all mutations are accidental.

All the religious fanatics in the world cannot show you one piece of tangible proof of their belief. However evolution has been proven. Not that humans evolved from monkeys but the fact that the evolutionary process is real. They offer their bible as proof, but humans wrote that. A good piece of fiction but dry and hard to fallow. Everyone, have a nice day!

ZMAN4U2HVE

07 Jan 2009 16:47

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I god existed then he would come down from heaven and kill all the non believers, so were is this so called justice day, so that means that god does not exist and there is also the big bang theory so shut up you christian fools and go play halo 3

kerrahn

24 Dec 2008 15:12

5 Comments

Pretty limited view.

It's "Judgement Day", not "Justice Day".

Also, there was something here before the Big Bang....we just don't know what that was...yet.

Skutch33

31 Dec 2008 14:59

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Evolution is so much more believable than the existence of god. Plus i think the bible is sexist and unfair to womens rights. God is always seen as male, Jesus, male, Jesus' 12 deciples, male, etc.

hejajima

22 Dec 2008 14:30

6 Comments

Actually, Evolution and Creation say about the same thing, if you introduce the enormous time span necessary for these things to have happened, and you look at Genisis as a story, rather than take it literally.
I'm not sure why you think the Bible is sexest. There are several women in there who are held in high regard.

Skutch33

31 Dec 2008 15:03

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As far as womens rights.... does anyone out there really believe that women and men are treated equally?  If you do then maybe you should try working in corporate america where women do the same jobs as men for as many if not more hours for less pay, less respect and less conrol than most men in the company.

Even though I am glad women can vote and have rights, did we go to far when we asked to have to get up before dawn to feed, cloth and get our children off to school, day care or caretaker before driving to a thankless 9 hour day then to come home exhausted to cook dinner, help children with studies, clean the house, and I almost forgot chauffer the kids, pets to endless sports events, doctor visits, piano/ballet/school events.......

The Bible protects women and allows them to raise their own children.  It was humans that decided we should stick our infants in the hand of underpaid uneducated resentful people.  The very most formative years of our childrens lives are spend in boxes with these pitiful creatures we call day care workers.

It was humans who decided that it was not enough for women to raise their young, care for the home and their man but that women also should have to "right" to scramble around trying to compete in a man's world.   Equal rights has not changed this and never will.  Women's work load is quadrupled now thanks to these men hating bitter women.  I say its more of a curse than a right after spending 18 years in corporate America and 2 years working from home.

Well off my soap box after one more comment.  I think God for a man that saw the insanity of both of us working ourselves to death in thankless corporate america with no one to cook and clean or time to enjoy just talking to each other.  I work from home now and can actually do the laundry, cook, clean, and have time to iron my man's shirts and do a job I love!!!!  No traffic, no co-workers, NO BOSS.... except my wonderful hubby.... my favorite manager ever!!!

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He, she, it...whatever. The human is an animal with 95% or more genetic similarity to several other species of animals also found on this planet. Made in God's image...more like chimps!

Hoo-hoo-ha-ha!

jmikael

12 Dec 2008 00:56

9 Comments

The human organism is not that which was created in Gods image. Try again.

justsumguy

13 Dec 2008 19:16

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Everything in our world is made up if you think about it, who thought of the different languages, the alphabet, yes each word is derived from different roots but where did it all come from everything we know is based on definitions that we were taught as a child. This includes religion, it is a made up story that someone thought up a long time ago before the theory of the big bang or the theory of evolution to explain why we are all here, they did so because most people in earlier times were simple minded and could not understand the scientific terms for why we all exist. Assuming we exist regardless of our lack of understanding, everything in our world is flawed, man 's ultimate flaw is how naive he is to the environment in which he was placed. To be honest there is no way to prove that god exists, but someone once told me that life is much easier to live if you have faith in some thing much bigger than your own existence. God only exists because people believe in him. Other than that there is no solid proof, i personally don't see the evidence of his existence anywhere, but there has to be something else out there to explain the strange fate we are all on the path to meet. I believe that if there is a god he is cruel , that he placed such a flawed creature in this environment to, watch it react purely for his own entertainment. Man is ignorant, therefor man is his own downfall.

ReAxIon08

02 Dec 2008 17:14

4 Comments

Which of course would suggest your reasoning has little if any bearing on this or any other subject.

justsumguy

13 Dec 2008 19:15

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I fully agree, there can be no omnipotent God, for omnipotence requires for the ability to transgress the laws of physics, which cannot be done, for no substance made of either matter or energy can transgress the bonds of physics, and existence s defined as something of either matter or energy. If God exists, show me! Concrete evidence, none of the faith argument.

Nando

21 Nov 2008 21:44

11 Comments

The laws of physics is flawed. It is based on the knowledge of humankind. We do not have the resources to define the laws of the universe that we know so little about.

SlyOne

24 Nov 2008 22:19

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Not on the contrary of Justsumguy’s post, Nando’s post is dumb. To the contrary of My2cents2u’s first sentence of her post, Slyone’s post is kind of dumb because it claims that the laws of physics are flawed based on the fact that the knowledge of them comes from humans. That makes no sense. The laws of physics are not flawed because of human knowledge. Albeit, there may be something about certain laws that we don’t yet know (such as a certain law performing differently under different circumstances). But that’s not a flaw of the law itself. It’s just something we have yet to discover. The laws of physics will work the same way they’re said to under the same conditions. If you drop a one pound ball from your hand, the laws of physics say it will always fall toward the ground under the proper conditions covered by the laws of physics themselves. It will never fly off into the sky under those same conditions. There may be add-ons to certain laws that we don’t know about yet. But, as said above, that’s not a flaw with the law. It’s just something we haven’t found out. There really can’t be a flaw with a physical law anyway. There can only be flaws with the way we understand those laws. But, even so, Slyone’s statement still doesn’t provide backup for how our understanding of any current natural law is incorrect. Incomplete knowledge concerning a certain subject does not mean the subject itself is flawed. It just means the knowledge of the subject is not complete.

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I would only give consideration to the "flawed theory" : ) as compared to perfect eternity. Let's say perfect eternity is my theory...

Perfect eternity would not in any way be confined to the laws of this universe. If one was to end space and time (that is viable scientific thought that correlates to the viable scientific thought that space and time had a beginning which I have left links to), leaving nothing (literally) but perfect eternity, I say there would be no space and time. In it's place (speaking from our current perspective), would be something that blows space and time out of the water. The exploration of which, would make exploring this universe and any others which may be governed by the laws of universal physics seem like learning how to add 1 with 1.

It's the crux of these God debates. These people who believe in God, even when being blithering idiots are hooked into a gigantic realm of theory. It's huge. On top of that, it is of a personal nature.

I understand their arguments are idiotic and they drive me to drinking, but the arguments against them are just as stupid because they are not taking into account this massive theory.

haha...that was fun. : )

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God is always with us, when people blame god or swear at him, they will get something bad afterwards. Which is obsolutely NO RESPECT to our God. God is always be with you.

mebius

19 Nov 2008 04:42

1 Comment

I think you meant to be on the other side. Also, I personally do not believe that God punishes people or does something bad to them because they say something bad about him. I believe He is way above that. Think of it this way. He is our Heavenly Father. As a parent, I love my children beyond measure and, while it hurts when they say something about me that I do not like, I do not do something hurtful or spiteful to them as a result. I may discipline them, but the word discipline has the word disciple right in it. It is to teach. Punishment is punitive and not the same thing. If you read the Psalms, a great many are shouting out at God in anger, frustration and a sense of feelings of abandonment. We, as humans, cannot see our creator and, at times, we may experience periods of a crisis of faith. We may even have moments where we question how a loving God allows for some of the atrocities we witness in the world around us. I choose to look at things with the inner knowledge that God has a plan for all that He created. If he allows suffering, (I don't ever think he creates it in our modern world...yes, in Old Testament times there are examples of his wrath, but the New Testament is there to demonstrate his fellowship with Man and the fact that he is unwilling that none shall be lost) it is a part of a plan that we may have yet to have revealed to us. All things to those who wait. I have seen beauty in suffering. That sounds horrible, but when my father was nearing the end there were moments of great beauty and a spiritual nature to the whole dying experience. My dear father did suffer some, but he was a man of great faith and he was fortunate to have loved ones that were there by his side doing all we could to make him comfortable. No cost was spared. He was blessed to have a son in law who is a wonderful physician with great empathy and much knowledge that allowed my father many years that he would not have had otherwise. I am giving a human credit here, but God created this human and gave him the extraordinary gifts that make him the exceptional physician that he is. Near the end, my father made comments about seeing "the beautiful light". There were other things as well. The point is. We can blame God, or we can look to see the reasoning for why there is suffering in our world. Without suffering, there would be no empathy. There would be no reason for anyone to leave the comfort of their home to help those less fortunate. These are things God does want from us. The suffering, however, is not metered out to those who say something negative about God. I assure you, He is confident enough to handle what we have to say about him. To tell someone that God will do something bad to them is not a way to win them over to the side of God. Let people know He is a just and loving God that wants the best for His children. He created us and does not want harm for us.

my2cents2u

21 Nov 2008 03:43

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I think you meant to be on the other side.  Also, I personally do not believe that God punishes people or does something bad to them because they say something bad about him.  I believe He is way above that.  Think of it this way.  He is our Heavenly Father.  As a parent, I love my children beyond measure and, while it hurts when they say something about me that I do not like, I do not do something hurtful or spiteful to them as a result.  I may discipline them, but the word discipline has the word disciple right in it.  It is to teach.  Punishment is punitive and not the same thing.  If you read the Psalms, a great many are shouting out at God in anger, frustration and a sense of feelings of abandonment.  We, as humans, cannot see our creator and, at times, we may experience periods of a crisis of faith.  We may even have moments where we question how a loving God allows for some of the atrocities we witness in the world around us.  I choose to look at things with the inner knowledge that God has a plan for all that He created.  If he allows suffering,  (I don't ever think he creates it in our modern world...yes, in Old Testament times there are examples of his wrath, but the New Testament is there to demonstrate his fellowship with Man and the fact that he is unwilling that none shall be lost) it is a part of a plan that we may have yet to have revealed to us.  All things to those who wait.  I have seen beauty in suffering.  That sounds horrible, but when my father was nearing the end there were moments of great beauty and a spiritual nature to the whole dying experience.  My dear father did suffer some, but he was a man of great faith and he was fortunate to have loved ones that were there by his side doing all we could to make him comfortable.  No cost was spared.  He was blessed to have a son in law who is a wonderful physician with great empathy and much knowledge that allowed my father many years that he would not have had otherwise.  I am giving a human credit here, but God created this human and gave him the extraordinary gifts that make him the exceptional physician that he is.  Near the end, my father made comments about seeing "the beautiful light".  There were other things as well.  The point is.  We can blame God, or we can look to see the reasoning for why there is suffering in our world.  Without suffering, there would be no empathy.  There would be no reason for anyone to leave the comfort of their home to help those less fortunate.  These are things God does want from us.  The suffering, however, is not metered out to those who say something negative about God.  I assure you, He is confident enough to handle what we have to say about him.  To tell someone that God will do something bad to them is not a way to win them over to the side of God.  Let people know He is a just and loving God that wants the best for His children.  He created us and does not want harm for us.

Comment

I think you meant to be on the other side.  Also, I personally do not believe that God punishes people or does something bad to them because they say something bad about him.  I believe He is way above that.  Think of it this way.  He is our Heavenly Father.  As a parent, I love my children beyond measure and, while it hurts when they say something about me that I do not like, I do not do something hurtful or spiteful to them as a result.  I may discipline them, but the word discipline has the word disciple right in it.  It is to teach.  Punishment is punitive and not the same thing.  If you read the Psalms, a great many are shouting out at God in anger, frustration and a sense of feelings of abandonment.  We, as humans, cannot see our creator and, at times, we may experience periods of a crisis of faith.  We may even have moments where we question how a loving God allows for some of the atrocities we witness in the world around us.  I choose to look at things with the inner knowledge that God has a plan for all that He created.  If he allows suffering,  (I don't ever think he creates it in our modern world...yes, in Old Testament times there are examples of his wrath, but the New Testament is there to demonstrate his fellowship with Man and the fact that he is unwilling that none shall be lost) it is a part of a plan that we may have yet to have revealed to us.  All things to those who wait.  I have seen beauty in suffering.  That sounds horrible, but when my father was nearing the end there were moments of great beauty and a spiritual nature to the whole dying experience.  My dear father did suffer some, but he was a man of great faith and he was fortunate to have loved ones that were there by his side doing all we could to make him comfortable.  No cost was spared.  He was blessed to have a son in law who is a wonderful physician with great empathy and much knowledge that allowed my father many years that he would not have had otherwise.  I am giving a human credit here, but God created this human and gave him the extraordinary gifts that make him the exceptional physician that he is.  Near the end, my father made comments about seeing "the beautiful light".  There were other things as well.  The point is.  We can blame God, or we can look to see the reasoning for why there is suffering in our world.  Without suffering, there would be no empathy.  There would be no reason for anyone to leave the comfort of their home to help those less fortunate.  These are things God does want from us.  The suffering, however, is not metered out to those who say something negative about God.  I assure you, He is confident enough to handle what we have to say about him.  To tell someone that God will do something bad to them is not a way to win them over to the side of God.  Let people know He is a just and loving God that wants the best for His children.  He created us and does not want harm for us.

Science proves it.

Its time for humans to move forward as a civilized group of beings that make rational, well thought out decisions
based on reason, logic, science, and the self

not some book with all the rules of life written in it
who wants to live like that?

That's not freedom, that's enslavement.

zs106907

10 Nov 2008 07:26

5 Comments

That was an idiotic comment. And you are a slave.

justsumguy

10 Nov 2008 23:52

Comment

God is real, no arguement here

n-stein8_

26 Oct 2008 07:20

3 Comments

sorry i should of been against this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

n-stein8_

26 Oct 2008 07:22

Comment

God is dead.

semimod

23 Oct 2008 17:19

5 Comments

Incorrect. This is not possible, as God is a spirit, Spirits cannot die.

Spook5691

20 Nov 2008 12:26

Comment

God does exist ..maybe people dont believe in god because of thier religion but god exists..

Mandaz17

20 Nov 2009 14:08

Add a Comment

GOD DOES EXIST!! Maybe your thinking that then why God does not protect us. That reason is not all Gods are good. Some are EVIL. Also when I ask God for help like getting a good grade, the next several days I get a good grade!![[B:text

coco99

05 Nov 2009 23:23

3 Comments

:), or maybe you studied for the test and did well? or maybe you understood the subject? Because im athiest and still get good grades:)

Smito

05 Nov 2009 23:50

Comment

God has been around a lot longer than this debate!

Tomcat

28 Oct 2009 15:48

1 Comment

right from the big bang then?

Nicadeamus

08 Nov 2009 02:17

Comment

There is a god who always helps us.your saying there is no proof that god exits then who created the earth,platnets and heavens.i am sure that mankind cannot create all these.so GOD DOES EXITS.

spidergirl

02 Oct 2009 13:14

1 Comment

Mankind cannot make the Earth, planets, and heavens, so there is a god?

We also cannot create blue tulips. It's equally relevant to the subject.

RoboHippo

30 Oct 2009 03:20

Comment

God does exist because I exist, and I felt his love and received the Holy Spirit. I'm the proof of his existance because I believe in him and he wants me to live strongly no matter how many evil and horrible events circulate around the world. Also, why did so many people sacrifice their lives just to spread the word full of love from Christ, even today? And think of the opposite: Why do so many people rail against God a lot? The world will fall apart, but God stands for all eternity.

joylove101

24 Sep 2009 05:33

2 Comments

i AGREE!! I love how you say such things!! Bravo!!

coco99

05 Nov 2009 23:25

Comment

OK,so you think god doesn't exist? Where is the proof for it? Anyway, there is proof that he exists. Search in any good images site for 'the eye of god' and look at the results. There is an eye in the sky.

rozz

20 Sep 2009 20:44

5 Comments

The responsibility of proof lies with the person who's making the claim.
not the skeptical one.
Like if I said, I have a baseball, and you said no you don't.
I'd show you the baseball.
I wouldn't say, you can't prove I don't.
It's impossible to prove God doesn't exist, and impossible to prove he does, and in the absence of proof, I'd say the odds are in the favour of God not existing.

ScottyRAWR

23 Sep 2009 18:14

Comment

Let me guess... Dawkins said it, you believe it, that settles it?

People like you who claim that God DOESN"T exist just because YOU SAY SO are no different than those who claim that God DOES existg because THEY SAY SO.

God exists, but not because I say so. I say so because it's the truth.

dlmiller82

01 Sep 2009 04:33

3 Comments

So you say.

finsch

20 Sep 2009 21:42

Comment

It's completely ridiculous to think the evolution took place without someone or something controlling it. And something must have been the first existence and that's most likely God. That may not sound logical, but every other assumption about "What was first?" is even less logical. And there are a lot more proofs.

ana_sun

19 Jul 2009 14:16

Add a Comment

Well...as you know...
If you don't believe in God..

It's simple...

Ur a

SATANIST!!!!!!!

shana6465

16 Jun 2009 13:21

3 Comments

please tell me you're being coy???? How can you believe in Satan if you don't believe in god? Neither exists.

hodver

16 Jun 2009 13:42

Comment

HOW DO YOU KNOW? Have you done some searching of the heavens and earth and now somehow you know more then the rest of us, because you seen it all. That is simply impossible... Sorry.

chriscowa1

04 Jun 2009 15:45

2 Comments

I'm actually of the belief that God does exist, but your statement is drawing me in for a comment... ;-)

I wouldn't say that it is impossible to know that God does or does not exist because it is not impossible to believe in anything you want to believe in. I think you meant to say that it is improbable for someone to know that God does or does not exist, without changing the fact that someone could still know.

Is it impossible that Jesus Christ will walk up to me and say Hi? No. Is it improbable? Yeah, just a bit.

Damien

04 Jun 2009 15:52

Comment

Althought there is neither that he exists or not but neverthe less would it hurt for us to main believe or have respect in sombody elses view

tie

23 May 2009 14:48

Add a Comment

There is also no proof that he DOESN'T exist!

nanabob

21 May 2009 20:43

1 Comment

Tsk.

Homestar

31 Oct 2009 16:14

Comment

I believe in God, but I also pride my ability to reason. I don't think either conflict at this point.

joredia93

30 Apr 2009 22:43

Add a Comment

How can you explain everything on earth. It got here somehow. I mean, its your choice to believe in him.

kelseyyx3

29 Apr 2009 21:50

Add a Comment

Hey... Wait. There is little proof for or against god. And Does it really matter? Hey- yes. I believe in a god. Doesn't mean I believe in everything associated with a god (such as an afterlife), but i believe in god. Just as an... Observer

minimac

15 Apr 2009 17:22

Add a Comment

God exists in the minds of everyone who enters this debate!...;-)

LordDaniel

10 Apr 2009 12:51

Add a Comment

God is just made up... If he were real he would just go and prove it...

Cluchy

06 Apr 2009 22:54

3 Comments

OK i commented on the wrong side...should be over there<<<

Cluchy

06 Apr 2009 22:58

Comment

I seriously believe there is a god. Now for evidence ill go ahead and disprove the whole big bang theory. At once there was nothing and then out of nowhere a giant explosion created the universe in random chemical reactions and accidental mutations that led to earth and life on earth us evolving from some sort of fish frog and a freaking monkey. I just disproved the theory of evolution as well. The reason God is "absent" is because society has told him to be. Society has said stay out of politics and schools and so he has. Whether or not you believe in a god you should have enough sense in the brain he blessed you with to know that there has to be some sort of greater power.

xLEO725x

31 Mar 2009 11:51

7 Comments

First you might want to research what the Big Bang and evolutionary theory actually say, because nothing you just said was correct.

Hizashi

02 Apr 2009 01:13

Comment

I do believe that God is there...

bliant

27 Mar 2009 03:26

3 Comments

I can only ask you one question. Why?

Shinsetsu

27 Mar 2009 22:30

Comment

There is the bible which was written a long time ago and that's is proof and no it hast changed..... And it has been right so far it says that all of israel and babilonia (a.k.a Iraq) will cry out and everyone will know ..... The thing between israel and Iraq whats that .... PROOF

dayjennel

25 Mar 2009 17:39

7 Comments

If you seriously think the Bible hasn't changed, you're utterly ignorant. The Bible has been crafted by various councils based on what they WANTED it to say, parts were left out here and there because the councils didn't like their message.

Yeah, that's some reliable book you have there.

Cephus

25 Mar 2009 18:24

Comment

God does exist. For the ones who don't believe just look around God is the only one who could make this world people are dumb for thinking other wise people believe what they read in their history books but yet they weren't here when it happened God is real and non-believers will learn sooner or later

zoelynn

25 Mar 2009 04:49

1 Comment

I’m confused. How is “Were you there?” an argument against anything that occurred in the past? I mean, it could just be turned right back around at you. Were you there? I doubt it. Anyway, like I said below, you’re trying to describe a color to a person who’s been blind all their life. Those arguments are useless against an atheist. A lot of atheists are ignorant. I suppose if you’re just putting forth your thoughts it’s a nice post. But as an argument, it’s every bit as meaningless as the ones on the other side. Well maybe not as meaningless, since the debate proposes there can be "proof" of something's nonexistence. I never fully got that part.

Hizashi

25 Mar 2009 05:21

Comment

How can you agree with that there is advance all around us every female has one gene that is the same they found were moses devised the red sea it goes like___-------______in the water how was the grand canon formed the great flood duh i want some thing that proofs he is not real because it will back fire on you and i will make it work for me studie him and you will believe you will not be able to stop your self i am a strong believer and I'm only 13 wow how about those apples and one day i hope you all believe not my word but his be done (bible i don't know were through)

davidfinc

19 Mar 2009 00:47

5 Comments

You don't have a chance. Keep studying and come back in 20 years.

justsumguy

25 Mar 2009 04:11

Comment

God does exist, whether hes actually real or just a thought hes real. GOD OWNZ!!!

Daspoiler

18 Mar 2009 21:34

Add a Comment

Of Course God exists
there are many things that are invisible but u know that they are there for example you own brain it is inside your skull no one can see it but it really exists or NOT

tehreem

15 Mar 2009 14:38

3 Comments

aaaa excuse me, I'm pretty sure if i were to crack my head open, id see a brain....If you open up a cross or your hands during a prayer, do you see god??

coelho

16 Mar 2009 19:27

Comment

I believe God exists... Because...

I want something to hope for other than being a machine suggested by evolution.

Prophecies from the Bible are ever so being fulfilled. Like Israel returning as a nation (remember the Walk in WWII?[and hebrew as the only language to have fully died off and revive)

Because I have had way too many complications with the varied evolutionary theories. (I used to be an atheist goth, mind you)

And btw a trend of the age is new age or matrixism because its 'cool'.

(I hope i put a few good respectable reasons)

gottfried

15 Mar 2009 00:57

7 Comments

There’s only one evolutionary theory. Whatever source you’ve been reading or hearing from on such a subject is horribly inaccurate. I would suggest gathering information on scientific topics from somewhere, or someone, else. Wherever you're getting it from now just isn't working. Almost every time I see you talking about evolution what you say isn’t correct. My advice would be just to refrain from saying anything about evolution, or any scientific topic, completely unless you know for sure what you’re saying is accurately portraying the theory in question. Otherwise, you’ll just be another one of the scientifically uneducated idiots on this site who run around claiming “this” and “that” about scientific issues they know nothing about (examples being Voov and Rodney).

Hizashi

19 Mar 2009 00:58

Comment

He does exist, can u prove that he doesn't exist? That's a belief in itself there's no proven fact that he doesn't exist

briantodd

12 Mar 2009 12:02

6 Comments

There were gods before someone thought him up.

Balance_92

12 Mar 2009 12:07

Comment

Notice its only athletes who care so much about this. I think its because you're not sure about what you believe and telling other people what they believe in is wrong is somehow reassuring your beliefs. I've never seen a follower of God yell at atheists for not believing in Him. The only time they would do that is when an atheist's starts the argument.

kdogg

11 Mar 2009 18:17

3 Comments

um god doesn't want us to yell he wants us to be peaceful and get along and you must be my friend because i "yell"at at all my friends for not believing

davidfinc

19 Mar 2009 01:01

Comment

Yeah god is real how can you say that! I'm mean we have the bible that's proof and every one that talks about prop 8 talks about god too

JCV

10 Mar 2009 02:19

2 Comments

Why is the Bible proof? If someone unearthed an ancient writing ,that pre-dated the Bible and was written by a prophet who was instructed by a cosmic entity, that contradicted the Bible in every way would that not be proof that God is all a farce?

Shinsetsu

27 Mar 2009 22:53

Comment

God is who ever you want him to be.

14940820

09 Mar 2009 18:40

1 Comment

You should be on the agreeing side because that is a wicked argument.

Balance_92

12 Mar 2009 12:10

Comment

We would not be having this debate if ''God,'' did not exist...;-) God exists in the minds of all educated people. It is a well known fact, that no one can dispute!

Joshua

04 Mar 2009 10:13

2 Comments

I am educated and capable of reasoned thought and I AM disputing it. Does that not really blow a hole in your assertion?

Shinsetsu

27 Mar 2009 22:55

Comment

There are lots of ways of defining god, possibly an infinite number of ways. Some of them may exist. We've already got words for the ones we know about, so I don't suppose there'd be much point in the exercise. God is a word, and it exists. It's all over the damned place.

CountOtto

03 Mar 2009 21:17

Add a Comment

You are wrong he does and if you don't believe in him you will die even if you don't want to he will track you down and kill you

ammiediaz

01 Mar 2009 19:11

10 Comments

I didn't know god was a hit-man. Who does he work for?

Evileye

01 Mar 2009 19:31

Comment

Dude!!! What are you thinking?! The earth,the sun,the grass...everything is living proof that god exists! You are living proof,I am living proof,We are all living proof!!!

Ian100

26 Feb 2009 04:07

6 Comments

Can you prove that those of which you stated is actual proof?

verum

26 Feb 2009 04:15

Comment

Ian’s approaching the situation from the wrong angle. He’ll never get anywhere debating with those on the other side that way. I can understand some of the reasoning behind such a viewpoint on things. Maybe not to the extent that I agree with that viewpoint completely, but I can at least see why some people might lean toward that position. The people on the other side obviously don’t understand. Most probably can’t because they don't try to. That’s basically my point. Judging by some of the other comments like Ian's, a lot of other people on this side of the debate are also making the same mistake. What they're doing is trying to describe what the color red looks like to a person who's been blind all their life. I may not see what someone else sees. I don't think it's even possible to completely see what someone else sees. But I try my best to understand someone's position. If it's just a notice of his beliefs, Ian's post is fine. But as an argument it's not going to work against an atheist. His claim of “proof” is no different from the claims of “proof” some on the other side have cited for the nonexistence of the same god (although Ian’s makes slightly more sense because it doesn’t attempt to prove the nonexistence of something). It might seem like I’m picking on his post only and not others, but I don't even respond to a lot of the posts and comments on this debate because they're mostly the same thing over and over. I just so happen to post on this one probably because it was the first in line when I came to this debate that day. I have the hardest time even finding certain people's stuff on a debate with so much text like this one. The supposedly “smart” nonbelievers on the other side of this debate aren’t mine either (if you were talking about me to begin with). I don’t claim any of them.

Comment

What you call lack of evidence I call proof of the devil. Even those who vehemently say they do not believe in God, when something really bad happens they start praying to him.

realpeople

26 Feb 2009 01:14

10 Comments

That's not true. Why would you assume non believers or Atheists would ever pray to a God.

verum

26 Feb 2009 01:17

Comment

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