God Does Not Exist. - For & Against

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God Does Not Exist.

Proof of his absence is all around us, but is there any proof that he does exist.

Spartan76

18 Dec 2007 01:53

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Depends on your definition of God, the idea that some invisible dude in the sky who created the earth 5000 years ago exactly as it is today seems silly, but maybe go could have started the big bang? Just a hypothetical question, I just wan tot point out that the bible and science a re more than capable of co-existing if you don't take the bible completely word-for-word

tatrafan77

22 May 2013 21:02

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God don't exist if he did we would have found him already

FisTOfDoOm

17 May 2013 05:22

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No he dosent exist...just the fact people believe in so manny diffeerent gods outrightly dismisses the existence of any

RONAK111

12 May 2013 10:55

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I am an anti-theist. I cannot conclusively prove there is no God (just as believers cannot prove there is) but I can look at the balance of probability and say that the existence of god is so incredibly unlikely as to be as good as impossible.

To quote a man with a much better way with words than me:

"Science knows it doesn't have all the answers, otherwise it would stop, but just because it doesn't have all the answers doesn't mean you can fill the gaps with whatever fairytale you like the most".

I also believe that the God represented in the Bible, Qu'ran and Torah is a hateful and petty creation worthy of nothing but fear and contempt, and that on balance religion does more damage than good.

Happy to debate this below but to pre-empt a lot of the nonsense I see in other comments:

- There IS evidence for evolution, it is NOT a theory of random chance and a scientific theory does not mean a guess (http://www.notjustatheory.com/)
- "If you're wrong you're going to hell" is not a logical argument, its a recourse to intimidation
- Multiple exclamation marks and claims of Jesus' return will be taken as a sign of mental instability
- Arguments that god created the universe to look like he didn't smack of desperation
- The Bible is not consistent (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html), nor is it moral (http://www.evilbible.com/) and its contents were hand picked by a conference of powerful men with an agenda (http://www.livescience.com/2410-council-nicea-changed-world.html)
- The mad, bad or god argument that Jesus (and by extension other bible figures) were either correct, insane or evil liars is debunked here: Http://faculty.wwu.edu/howardd/mbgfp5web.pdf
- "I believe so it must be true" is contradicted by the billions of people who sincerely have faith in something different
- The argument "we can't have come from nowhere therefore God made us" makes no sense, as it fails to answer where God came from

Bemischen

12 May 2013 08:52

4 Comments

I'll paste my response to Your response to my comment, since it's unlikely that You'll read it.

"Atheism is faith that is based on nonsensical assumptions. All faith is based on assumptions without coverage in knowledge. You are also a believer. You believe that God doesn't exist. You can't just say that you know that he doesn't exist. That would be ignorant." -- And it's a prefect response to Your statement -- "I cannot conclusively prove there is no God" -- That's good common sense, You're not ignorant, but still You managed to make a mistake by calling theists "believers" -- "(just as believers cannot prove there is)" -- and explicitly excluding Yourself from the "believers" group. Tell me, can't this go the other way around? Can't a theist call You a "believer" since You believe God doesn't exist? We all are belivers, we just believe in different things, or in a different way. It's interesting, but simple. Faith is a effect of lack of knowledge, and atheists have no knowledge, just like theists. Actually, theists have more knowledge than atheists, the only knowledge that atheists have, is that the knowledge that theists have is not satisfactory (for atheists).

Now, I'd be happy to debate on these issues, unfortunately, I agree with most of them. The fact that Christianity is full of contradictions and inconsistencies doesn't preclude the existence of force majeure. Christianity may be a completely wrong perception of the so-called "God." Most of the problems You cited are related to Christianity, but there are hundreds of other religions. Most likely none of them describes God correctly. From a humans perspective based on Christianity, contemporary western morality and equipped with well-developed logic, God is a bloodthirsty monster praising pain and fear (of course, if he exists) I don't know if You wan't to debate on that. Let's move to the things I disagree with.

"The Bible is not consistent (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html), nor is it moral (http://www.evilbible.com/)" -- I'm interested in the moral part. Check out "moral relativism". In summary, the morality of the Bible is a subjective topic for most people, but I, trying to be objective, came to the conclusion that morality is relative. Thus, it's improper to me to say that the Bible is absolutely immoral. But the source is talking about God being immoral. That's also a subject to debate. According to Christianity, God is morality. -- "Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK." -- It does, actually. As one would say -- "Let the will of heavens be, with it one always has to agree" -- originally -- "Niech się dzieje wola nieba, z nią się zawsze zgadzać trzeba" (translated by id_viper_88_id)

""I believe so it must be true" is contradicted by the billions of people who sincerely have faith in something different" -- When You're talking about different, You mean different Gods / religions. Those are not "antonyms". There's no paradox going on here. Different religions can simply be different views of the same God.

"The argument "we can't have come from nowhere therefore God made us" makes no sense, as it fails to answer where God came from" -- Does God have to come from somewhere? Is that mandatory?

"When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." (for some humor)

prospekt

12 May 2013 13:05

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I'll paste my response to Your response to my comment, since it's unlikely that You'll read it.

"Atheism is faith that is based on nonsensical assumptions. All faith is based on assumptions without coverage in knowledge. You are also a believer. You believe that God doesn't exist. You can't just say that you know that he doesn't exist. That would be ignorant." -- And it's a prefect response to Your statement -- "I cannot conclusively prove there is no God" -- That's good common sense, You're not ignorant, but still You managed to make a mistake by calling theists "believers" -- "(just as believers cannot prove there is)" -- and explicitly excluding Yourself from the "believers" group. Tell me, can't this go the other way around? Can't a theist call You a "believer" since You believe God doesn't exist? We all are belivers, we just believe in different things, or in a different way. It's interesting, but simple. Faith is a effect of lack of knowledge, and atheists have no knowledge, just like theists. Actually, theists have more knowledge than atheists, the only knowledge that atheists have, is that the knowledge that theists have is not satisfactory (for atheists).

Now, I'd be happy to debate on these issues, unfortunately, I agree with most of them. The fact that Christianity is full of contradictions and inconsistencies doesn't preclude the existence of force majeure. Christianity may be a completely wrong perception of the so-called "God." Most of the problems You cited are related to Christianity, but there are hundreds of other religions. Most likely none of them describes God correctly. From a humans perspective based on Christianity, contemporary western morality and equipped with well-developed logic, God is a bloodthirsty monster praising pain and fear (of course, if he exists) I don't know if You wan't to debate on that. Let's move to the things I disagree with.

"The Bible is not consistent (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html), nor is it moral (http://www.evilbible.com/)" -- I'm interested in the moral part. Check out "moral relativism". In summary, the morality of the Bible is a subjective topic for most people, but I, trying to be objective, came to the conclusion that morality is relative. Thus, it's improper to me to say that the Bible is absolutely  immoral. But the source is talking about God being immoral. That's also a subject to debate. According to Christianity, God is morality. -- "Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK." -- It does, actually. As one would say -- "Let the will of heavens be, with it one always has to agree" -- originally -- "Niech się dzieje wola nieba, z nią się zawsze zgadzać trzeba" (translated by id_viper_88_id)

""I believe so it must be true" is contradicted by the billions of people who sincerely have faith in something different" -- When You're talking about different, You mean different Gods / religions. Those are not "antonyms". There's no paradox going on here. Different religions can simply be different views of the same God.

"The argument "we can't have come from nowhere therefore God made us" makes no sense, as it fails to answer where God came from" -- Does God have to come from somewhere? Is that mandatory?

"When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." (for some humor)

Comment

I'll paste my response to Your response to my comment, since it's unlikely that You'll read it.

"The argument "we can't have come from nowhere therefore God made us" makes no sense, as it fails to answer where God came from" -- Does God have to come from somewhere? Is that mandatory?

"When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." (for some humor)

Comment

Hi prospekt.  Thanks for the reply.

“Atheism is faith that is based on nonsensical assumptions”

What are these nonsensical assumptions?  Are they that god definitely doesn't exist?  Or something else?  If the former then using this quote is an attempt to knock down a straw man of your own creations as I clearly stated that I was making no such claim – I am an anti-theist who believes that god is very unlikely to exist, not an atheist who claims outright it does not.  If the latter than an accusation of nonsense without evidence or even justification is not an argument but an insult, and doesn't seem a very worthy source for quotation in a debate.

Regardless, I don't really understand the obsession with labelling atheism as a faith or belief system, and don't understand what its meant to prove: playing semantic games with the various meanings of the word “belief” is no cleverer or more meaningful than false accusing scientific theories of being mere guesses because of the different meanings of the word “theory”.

A lack of belief in god is no more a faith than a lack of belief in Santa Claus or dragons, and the lack of belief in the former is only more significant than the lack of belief in the latter because of the power of religion in our society and the discrimination and threats faced by atheists in many countries.  A faith or religion has a set of structures beliefs and practices; a lack of belief in anything, god or otherwise, has no such thing.  Finally, where faith is blind (and usually praised as such by theists) a lack of belief can be changed with just a single thing: compelling evidence of the existence of that which is not believed.

“Faith is a effect of lack of knowledge, and atheists have no knowledge, just like theists.”

1. Faith can be held by both knowledgeable or non knowledgeable people as can a lack of faith.
2. What is it your accusing theists and atheists of having no knowledge of?

“Actually, theists have more knowledge than atheists, the only knowledge that atheists have, is that the knowledge that theists have is not satisfactory (for atheists).”

This sentence appears to be little more than a play on words designed to distract and confuse. It quickly falls down where you use the word “knowledge” to actually mean opinion; that something is unsatisfactory is an opinion, not a fact.  Your hypothetical atheists think that theists are wrong, they cannot know this for sure, so it is not knowledge.  Even if this were not the case the assertion that this is “the only knowledge that atheists have” is clearly not literally true, but as you have not explained what you mean by it I cant see what it adds to your argument.

“Actually, theists have more knowledge than atheists”

As far as I can make out you are accusing atheists of having less knowledge than theists because they think that atheists are wrong.  Firstly, you said yourself that faith (of both sides) is a lack of knowledge so why are you now disagreeing with yourself in positing that the theists have it right? And if they don't have it right then why are atheists ignorant for thinking theists are wrong but not vice versa?  If theists weren't just as strongly certain that they were right and atheists wrong then they wouldn't be theists, they'd be agnostics.

“The fact that Christianity is full of contradictions and inconsistencies doesn't preclude the existence of force majeure.”

I never said it did..  I included a list of common responses I have seen on previous comments (and already responded to) to preclude them being thrown at me again.  My belief that there is probably no god is not however contingent upon these points.  I'm sorry if this was not clear enough.  If it was and you are merely constructing a straw man, then shame on you ;)

“Most of the problems You cited are related to Christianity, but there are hundreds of other religions. “

I was providing a list of arguments I have already seen and responded to, so this is purely a result of the religious bent of those who made those comments.

"Let the will of heavens be, with it one always has to agree"

Correct me if I'm wrong but this seems to be the crux of the whole paragraph and apparently means nothing more than god is moral because god is moral.  Firstly this appears to be a circular argument and secondly as both an anti-theist, an unbeliever and a human being I disagree both intellectually and morally in the strongest way.  Even if god did exist and did create us all, that no more allows it a free hand to be murderous and cruel than it does parents to abuse their children.

Morality is of course relative but there is overwhelming consensus that rape, murder, infanticide and prolonged imprisonment and torture (infinite in this sense) are evil acts.  I continue to be baffled how people can proclaim the morality of a book which details the actions of and correct means of obeisance to a figures who, if he existed, was responsible for more of these acts than any human in history.

Also again, I have to point out that as interesting as these points are, my disbelief in a god is not just a disbelief in a Christian god and I only raised these (largely Christian focused) arguments in response to comments already made.

(continued in next comment)

Comment

(continued from above)

"Different religions can simply be different views of the same God".

As with the existence of a single god this is not falsifiable but again I find it highly unlikely.  Where is the evidence for this and why would god want or allow humans to worship it in so many forms, while (as so often happens, often as a matter of doctrine) persecuting those with different beliefs in the same god?

Does this invalidate my argument that “I believe in something so it must be true” is contradicted by the range of faiths out there?  I don't see how.  A Christian who says God must exist because they have faith is still wrong under your argument, for they are arguing not for the existence of any god but for their particular god as laid out in their scriptures.

"Does God have to come from somewhere? Is that mandatory?"

No, but this is not what I said.  I am arguing against this “have your cake and eat it” argument whereby theists poo poo the idea that the universe could have started by itself, but then invoke a creator.  Where did this creator come from?  If from nowhere then why is that any more logical than the universe starting itself?

"When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." (for some humor)

So prospekt, what about you?  Are you a deist who believes in an some over arching god we do not understand?  Or are you arguing for the sake of debate; to challenge what you see as weaknesses in my argument?  If the former, why is it you believe in this god?

Comment

I'll slightly change the order of the issues in this debate. Forgive me if it gets confusing.

"I don't really understand the obsession with labelling atheism as a faith or belief system, and don't understand what its meant to prove" -- In our case, It was to show that You made a mistake calling theists belivers, and expressly excluding the atheist group. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is You that said -- "All you can do is state whether you have faith in its existence (believer), are not sure (agnostic) or are about as certain as it is possible to be (atheist)" -- Correct me again, but You have specified Yourself as -- "anti-theist who believes that god is very unlikely to exist" -- You see, agnostic is not one whom believes that it's (>very unlikely<) as You said, it's simply (>not sure<) Not sure is usually 50/50. From those three, You left out apatheism, and I find it crucial. Since your not a theist, nor an atheist, and you're not (>not sure<) to which of those would you assign Yourself?

"A faith or religion has a set of structures beliefs and practices; a lack of belief in anything, god or otherwise, has no such thing." -- Then what are atheists doing now? Since when any faith requires practises as developed as in a  religion? -- http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith -- I'm interested in the "belief that is not based on proof" definition. I'll explain it as one priest long ago. Faith is a key component of our lives. It surrounds us everywhere, because all of our decisions and convictions are based on faith, not knowledge. Translated simply, if You want to turn on the light in Your room using a switch, You're doing it because You believe that by doing so You turn on the light. If You rely on pure knowledge, You'd have to examine certain problems; Maybe there's a  short circuit? Or there's no electricity? Maybe the light bulb is burned out? Before You make this step, You'd have to examine all the factors in 100%, and that's pure knowledge. With faith You don't think, You just do as you believe. Does turning on the lights require a set of structures and practices? As much as disbelief. The human brain can't just know everything, that's unachievable.

"discrimination and threats faced by atheists in many countries." -- Sorry, but that's extremely stereotypical, and unworthy of comment   :O just argumentum ad misericordiam et ad populum

"1. Faith can be held by both knowledgeable or non knowledgeable people as can a lack of faith." -- I didn't mean peoples general knowledge, I should have specified my statement. Faith is not based on knowledge. I meant the kind of knowledge that confirms or denies the existence of God. And the problem is, there is no such thing. I'll jump a bit -- "Firstly, you said yourself that faith (of both sides) is a lack of knowledge so why are you now disagreeing with yourself in positing that the theists have it right? " -- I want to apologise for my horrible mistake. Originally I used a completely different word, and for some reason I've changed it to knowledge. But I'm sitting in a ditch full of sh!t anyway, so I'll try to get out ;)

Theists and atheists attempt to change their faith into a fact by seeking proof. I should have used that word instead of knowledge. In my opinion, it's a lot easier to prove that something exists,  and it's just impossible for a human being to prove that something doesn't exist. All You need to prove one's existence is one proof (Surely You know how it works with tryng to prove one's nonexistence) And now, whether You find the evidence reliable, is a individual matter. Therefore I shouldn't have said it's knowledge. Once again, I'm sorry.

"2. What is it your accusing theists and atheists of having no knowledge of?" -- If God exists.

"actually mean opinion; that something is unsatisfactory is an opinion, not a fact" -- Nope, I meant proof. The proof that theist have is unsatisfactory for atheists or is undermined.

"Even if god did exist and did create us all, that no more allows it a free hand to be murderous and cruel than it does parents to abuse their children." -- We'll get to that later. -- "Morality is of course relative but there is overwhelming consensus that rape, murder, infanticide and prolonged imprisonment and torture (infinite in this sense) are evil acts." -- Think about it. If morality IS relative, than what now is considered evil, once could be considered neutral or even good. The Bible is not from the XX century. That's why I pointed out the -- "contemporary western morality" -- in my part about a human and his view on the Bible. Just as the government establishes laws and can change them, God establishes morals and can change them.

"why would god want or allow humans to worship it in so many forms" --  those are esoterics unavailable for the human mind.  Think of how hard it would be for an MIT professor to explain software programming to a newborn child. That's similar to how it would be if God tried to explain his actions, the implications of his reflections to us, humans.

"The argument "we can't have come from nowhere therefore God made us" makes no sense, as it fails to answer where God came from" -- Why doesn't it make any sense? The reasoning of theists who exclude other possibilities, yes, makes no sense, but the argument itself is correct.

"I am an anti-theist who believes that god is very unlikely to exist, not an atheist who claims outright it does not." -- "I am atheist in the same way I am an atheist about dragons"

If God Exists There Would Be No Suffering No Toture And No Killing Or Flooding The World Would Be Perfect.

The Bible Is Full Of Hot Air, God Would Prevent Anything To Do Bad Or Harm To This World.

Crusaphier

28 Apr 2013 20:06

2 Comments

So since God doesn't do what you think He should do, that means He doesn't exist? My my, aren't we (meaning you) so very puffed up, thinking you know better what the universe should be like than God Himself. Where were you when He created the universe?

paladen

28 Apr 2013 22:56

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Does not exist

Vegito

11 Apr 2013 12:29

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He totally exists!

DWood12

03 Apr 2013 12:47

2 Comments

If you said he totally exists, then why did you vote no?

Tititi1551

04 Apr 2013 22:27

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I feel a lot of debate on the against side is missing the point, that when one makes a claim, it is the claimant's responsibility to provide evidence of claim. It is not the listener's responsibility to disprove. If you claim there is a higher power, provide evidence.

A lack of evidence against is not evidence for.

There is no proof that we are not all in a dream, or in a bubble controlled by aliens, but we generally don't make life decisions surrounding it. I have found, for the most part, that many religious persons are committed to religion and theism because they fear the consequences of not. That terrifies me. That one should live their life with such dismissal and irrationality. Or they have 'felt' some movement in their soul. You vastly underestimate the human mind. We are complex, flawed creatures, and the human mind can be tricked, grown, and awed with such ease.

God does not exist because he rationally does not make sense. There is no logic, no evidence, no base, but the human want for purpose, acceptance, and simplistic understanding.

soundburn

16 Mar 2013 14:09

7 Comments

I don't know if you've realized it, but everything you just said could be used against you too.
If you claim there is NOT higher power, you have to provide evidence too.
"God does not exist because he rationally does not make sense. There is no logic, no evidence, no base, but the human want for purpose, acceptance, and simplistic understanding." This doesn't prove anything, they're just claims. In fact, there is no proof for the Evolution either. It's theory. not fact. It's just as you said, "A lack of evidence against is not evidence for." You gotta play fair here.

espada0330

16 Mar 2013 14:28

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espada0330: Firstly, let me start by asking you to google the scientific definition of theory. Scientific theory is not the English word theory. It is defined as this on anything you will find: "A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment". So. Nice try. Evolution is not a scientist's best guess after a late night out. It is substantiated, significantly. Theory is a term scientists often use for biological and chemical happenings, because it is difficult to determine precise means. Note, not the happening itself. Evolution happens. But is it micro? Is it macro? It's difficult to say on every bit of evidence we find. To say evolution doesn't happen to a scientist it to convince him you don't breathe.
 
To address the next part. I am willing and ready to provide more evidence as to why God does not exist. That would require us speaking person to person, but in short, I will reiterate, that evidence of our nature is a dent, already. Humans seek passive understanding. Cultures around the world create a sense of higher power, and when you delve into their mythologies, at their core, you find the want for purpose. The fear of death. The demand for morality. These are evidences that humans are self deceiving. That God is another aspect of a social contract.

Comment

Hi Stash10.

RE "There is also NO evidence for evolution!"

That's not at all true.  Given the Bible's repeated condemnation of lying (e.g. Proverbs 6:16-19) I assume you merely haven't investigated the evidence out there.  Why don't you start here:  (http://www.teachthemscience.org/evidence).  Hope that helps.

RE "Science is used to explain things (and can ONLY explain things) within the world. God is OUTSIDE the world."

What do you mean by OUTSIDE the world?  Science is used to explain many things outside of our planet and has been extremely successful at making predictions later shown to be correct by observation (e.g. "www.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/10-scientific-laws-theories.htm")

If you just mean that as God can't be disproved or proved scientifically (he is "not falsifiable" in scientific terms) then why does that mean he has to exist?  Couldn't the same be said for Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Fairies or any other mythology?  Of all the belief systems out their why is your unprovable one true and their unprovable ones not?

I have no reason to believe that God exists, if we actually had something to prove that he exists, then fair play, but we don't so.... Anyway i find it hard to believe anything that doesn't have solid evidence to back it up. So i would believe in the big bang, because there is evidence to prove that. But to think that 1 being (God) created a whole world it just absurd!

wam

05 Mar 2013 15:55

4 Comments

You seem to miss the point of being an all-powerful being. He really couldn't be all-powerful if he couldn't make the Earth in 7 days, now could he? Anyway, you people keep thinking that us "religious folk" think that everything was made at it's beginning (when I say that, I mean that all the stars, planets, galaxies, etc., was made at the formation of the star, planet, galaxy, etc.). What I'm trying to say is that since God is all-powerful, he could have created everything as if it were in the middle of it's life. He could have created a star in seconds that would have seemed to be billions of years old already. The scientific community also believes that the Big Bang occured. The reason they think this is that everything is moving away from each other. They conclude from this that everything can be traced back to a central point (which would be the center of the universe and where the Big Bang would have occured).
The problem with this argument is that there is no center of the universe. With the way the universe is expanding, it actually seems from a large perspective that everything is the center of the universe. To demonstrate this, you need software that lets you alter pictures. First, get a picture of randomly-placed black dots, not too many or too little. Copy this image, and expand it 5-10%, and change the color of the dots (it makes it easier to see). When you line up two dots that were the same, all the other dots seemed to have moved away from the one point you lined up. Now if you line up another pair of dots, everything looks like it is moving away from that point.
Now to another demonstration. Imagine a car race (the Daytona 500 or similar). If you compare the progression of the race to the progression of the universe, we would be somewhat into the race right now, and the Big Bang would be the beginning. What scientists did (metaphorically, remember the universe is represented by the cars and the race), is look at where all the cars are now, and use complex formulas, algorithms, and equations to kind of "rewind" the race. They would conclude that all the cars started at the starting line, which would seem like a logical thing. But with all-powerful power, God created all the cars randomly around the track already going high speeds only a few laps before where they are now. That would give the ILLUSION of everything tracing back to a starting point. This is a pretty good metaphor for both sides of the story, even though us "religious folk" are right.

higa123

09 Mar 2013 17:15

Comment

You seem to miss the point of being an all-powerful being. He really couldn't be all-powerful if he couldn't make the Earth in 7 days, now could he? Anyway, you people keep thinking that us "religious folk" think that everything was made at it's beginning (when I say that, I mean that all the stars, planets, galaxies, etc., was made at the formation of the star, planet, galaxy, etc.). What I'm trying to say is that since God is all-powerful, he could have created everything as if it were in the middle of it's life. He could have created a star in seconds that would have seemed to be billions of years old already. The scientific community also believes that the Big Bang occured. The reason they think this is that everything is moving away from each other. They conclude from this that everything can be traced back to a central point (which would be the center of the universe and where the Big Bang would have occured). 
The problem with this argument is that there is no center of the universe. With the way the universe is expanding, it actually seems from a large perspective that everything is the center of the universe. To demonstrate this, you need software that lets you alter pictures. First, get a picture of randomly-placed black dots, not too many or too little. Copy this image, and expand it 5-10%, and change the color of the dots (it makes it easier to see). When you line up two dots that were the same, all the other dots seemed to have moved away from the one point you lined up. Now if you line up another pair of dots, everything looks like it is moving away from that point. 
Now to another demonstration. Imagine a car race (the Daytona 500 or similar). If you compare the progression of the race to the progression of the universe, we would be somewhat into the race right now, and the Big Bang would be the beginning. What scientists did (metaphorically, remember the universe is represented by the cars and the race), is look at where all the cars are now, and use complex formulas, algorithms, and equations to kind of "rewind" the race. They would conclude that all the cars started at the starting line, which would seem like a logical thing. But with all-powerful power, God created all the cars randomly around the track already going high speeds only a few laps before where they are now. That would give the ILLUSION of everything tracing back to a starting point. This is a pretty good metaphor for both sides of the story, even though us "religious folk" are right.

Comment

You seem to miss the point of being an all-powerful being. He really couldn't be all-powerful if he couldn't make the Earth in 7 days, now could he? Anyway, you people keep thinking that us "religious folk" think that everything was made at it's beginning (when I say that, I mean that all the stars, planets, galaxies, etc., was made at the formation of the star, planet, galaxy, etc.). What I'm trying to say is that since God is all-powerful, he could have created everything as if it were in the middle of it's life. He could have created a star in seconds that would have seemed to be billions of years old already. The scientific community also believes that the Big Bang occured. The reason they think this is that everything is moving away from each other. They conclude from this that everything can be traced back to a central point (which would be the center of the universe and where the Big Bang would have occured). 
The problem with this argument is that there is no center of the universe. With the way the universe is expanding, it actually seems from a large perspective that everything is the center of the universe. To demonstrate this, you need software that lets you alter pictures. First, get a picture of randomly-placed black dots, not too many or too little. Copy this image, and expand it 5-10%, and change the color of the dots (it makes it easier to see). When you line up two dots that were the same, all the other dots seemed to have moved away from the one point you lined up. Now if you line up another pair of dots, everything looks like it is moving away from that point. 
Now to another demonstration. Imagine a car race (the Daytona 500 or similar). If you compare the progression of the race to the progression of the universe, we would be somewhat into the race right now, and the Big Bang would be the beginning. What scientists did (metaphorically, remember the universe is represented by the cars and the race), is look at where all the cars are now, and use complex formulas, algorithms, and equations to kind of "rewind" the race. They would conclude that all the cars started at the starting line, which would seem like a logical thing. But with all-powerful power, God created all the cars randomly around the track already going high speeds only a few laps before where they are now. That would give the ILLUSION of everything tracing back to a starting point. This is a pretty good metaphor for both sides of the story, even though us "religious folk" are right.

Comment

Hi Stash10,

I can't speak for wam but neither I nor anyone I've met who believes in scientific evidence over assertions of faith simply had someone come up to them and told them everything was random.  Instead we spent a lot of time reading, debating and thinking in order to understand and come to our own conclusions about the evidence out there.  I doubt based on your arguments that you have taken the time to do the same.

If you think its fair to mock someone for believing something purely because they were told it then a far better candidate would be Christians who are told that God exists (no evidence, he just does, faith is good, skepticism bad).

RE random chance.  Evolution is not random.  Given that in another comment you claimed that there is no evidence for evolution I understand you must not have investigated evolution before dismissing it but it is worth doing some reading into it.  Very simply put (but do read up for yourself) evolution is the result of natural selection (the most fit individuals surviving and passing on their genes).  The random element is mutation caused by copying errors in DNA (and possible RNA, micro RNA etc - are understanding keeps improving due the hard work of scientists), but as only those tiny tiny number of errors which lead to improvements get passed on and contribute to evolution the overall process is not random.

RE the universe was created RANDOMLY.  Yes, scientists do not know how the Big Bang came about, but neither do you, and that doesn't mean that your belief system is automatically correct.  I'm not good at putting my ideas succinctly, but I think the following quote nicely sums it up:

"Science knows it doesn't have all the answers,  otherwise it would stop, and just because science doesn't have all the answers doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairytale you like the most".

RE the idea that is it ridiculous that the universe just started without someone to created it; please explain to me how that is any more ridiculous than God just starting without anyone to create him?  Scientific theories posit that complexity has built up over time and they provide evidence to suggest this, whether or not you can be bothered to read it is irrelevant) whereas religionists just say "God was there, he did it, BAM!")

Re your last paragraph; I think a better understanding of evolution will make you see how silly such a statement is.

So take that break...  Do some reading...

Comment

We will see when we die.

Dadmad6

17 Feb 2013 17:24

3 Comments

Ha, agreed

wam

05 Mar 2013 15:55

Comment

It's kind of ignorant to say that God doesn't exist, just based on the fact that there is no evidence that he exists. The same is the case with the assertion that he does exist, just because no one has proven that he doesn't exist. I'll agree, just to reduce inequality.

prospekt

11 Feb 2013 12:20

3 Comments

It is impossible to prove or disprove anything supernatural. All you can do is state whether you have faith in its existence (believer), are not sure (agnostic) or are about as certain as it is possible to be (atheist). I am atheist in the same way I am an atheist about dragons, unicorns and fairies. I cannot prove they don't exist, but I am pretty sure they don't and I believe it would be ridiculous to give their existence credence just because I cannot disprove them.

Bemischen

12 May 2013 07:36

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What are these nonsensical assumptions?  Are they that god definitely doesn't exist?  Or something else?

It's totally meaningless to say he does or he doesn't. It has no effect on us in any way whatsoever. If we all decided tomorrow to say 'yes, he exists, we believe!'' nothing would change, the world wouldn't alter, planets would still spin, suns still shine, human nature would continue as before.
Science has never said 'god doesn't exist' because it doesn't need to, , science works whether the scientist believes or not, so science just simply dropped the god factor a century ago, and got on with the provable.
A christian saying 'yes he definitely exists' is laughable. In the bible you are told 'believe in me', , ,well the very act of belief relies on something being unproven, because a belief that is confirmed becomes a fact, and stops being a belief.

sam-samuel

11 Feb 2013 11:49

3 Comments

In a response to your statement "well the very act of belief relies on something being unproven," explain dark matter to me then. Tell me how you thinking that something that we cannot see, cannot detect, cannot feel, taste, smell, etc. is not belief but fact. You may then earn a tiny amount of respect from me.

higa123

09 Mar 2013 16:56

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We don't know if God does exist or if he doesn't. People have faith, they believe in God. He doesn't have to exist, just believe that he does. I however, am not a believer or one to have faith in a fairytale character. Sorry, religious folk.

Pativis

09 Feb 2013 06:28

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A tale made to comfort and control people.

tktfowl

13 Jan 2013 20:56

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Proof of his absence is around of but not proof that he doesn't exist. So I say we do not know for sure. I hope he does tho

df0512

26 Dec 2012 14:23

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Poo poo

roflailer

18 Dec 2012 17:01

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If god does Exist. When i die i am going to kick his but to hi11. Or if i go to hi11 i am go to kick the devils but to hevan then i am go to kick both there buts.

devil107

14 Dec 2012 12:00

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The scientific evidence does not match up with the evidence and the scriptures from the bible. There is no actual scientific evidence that says that God is the all mighty and he runs and decides everything in every humans life. Therefore he does not exist.

t_m_w_e_95

29 Nov 2012 14:23

2 Comments

If I make a textbook that contains false information about World War I, would you claim that I could use its falsity as evidence that World War I never happened?
All you can claim from your argument is that the Bible is not a reliable source. This does not mean you can refute every claim made within it without evidence.

ohon

01 Apr 2013 04:54

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There's no PROOF that there's god. It may just be some story someone made up in the past.

ArianaG

17 Nov 2012 23:45

4 Comments

There's also no prove that he doesn't exist

jamador88

29 Nov 2012 11:59

Comment

Let me just tell you something, since you think this might have been a story that one man made up in the past.  The bible was written by over 40 men!!  All of those men lived at different points in history (which means that they couldn't have gotten together and collaborated this story).  All of the books in the bible flow together, they are NOT contradictory (no matter what anyone thinks, if you've taken an objective look at the books you'll see).  ALL of the men said that they wrote their books under the divine inspiration of God!!

Which means there are two possibilities....

1. All those 40 men were lying!!
2. They were telling the truth.

If the bible, the book that contains the best moral code of them all where the 9th commandment is "DO NOT LIE," was written by a bunch of lying Hippocrates.  Then there is no hope for humanity anyway!

However, if they were telling the truth and we are right.  Then you'll burn in hell and we'll enjoy eternal paradise in heaven.

Think of it this way, you all think your having the time of your lives!  You can do whatever you want and you don't (or you think you don't) have to answer to a higher power.  However, when the Lord comes back (and he will).  He'll put an end to your party and OURS WILL START!!!  The best part is...... OUR PARTY WILL NEVER END!!!!

Comment

Hi Stash 10,

Almost everything you've said here is either a bald faced lie or based on very manipulative logic.

"They couldn't have gotten together and collaborated their story"

That argument only makes sense if they also couldn't see what the other men wrote before them, whereas in fact they would have had the previous books to work from.

"All of the books in the bible flow together, they are NOT contradictory"

A straight out lie.  The bible is riddled with contradictions which are widely documented (e.g. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html).

"ALL of the men said that they wrote their books under the divine inspiration of God!!"

So what?  You can claim anything you like.

"Which means there are two possibilities....

1. All those 40 men were lying!!
2. They were telling the

Being wrong is not the same as lying.  All those 40 men may have been wrong (or their work edited after their deaths) but that didn't mean they were deliberately lying.  They could have believed what they were saying due to the writings of those before them, the teachings of their elders, their own personal faith etc, just like modern Christians.

"If the bible, the book that contains the best moral code of them all where the 9th commandment is "DO NOT LIE," was written by a bunch of lying Hippocrates. Then there is no hope for humanity anyway!"

1. That its the best moral code is your opinion.  God seems a bit self obsessed to me.
2. As argued above the writers could have been wrong without being liars.
3. You have made several statements in various comments which appear to be straight out lies "there is also NO evidence for evolution", "the books of the bible... are not contradictory".
4. Why is there no hope for humanity if the Bible is wrong?  Given the horrific acts committed by our supposed creator (http://www.evilbible.com/) and the promise of everlasting torment in hel for the majority, this would seem to be a very good thing to me!

"if there were telling the truth... you'll burn in hell"

Gloating?  That's not very Christian of you?  Plenty of people have believed plenty of nonsense and if they were right we'd be in trouble.  It doesn't make it true.

"you all think your having the time of your lives! You can do whatever you want"

Atheists and non Christians obey laws and rules, we just don't do it because we think we'll get spanked by an all powerful bearded man in the sky.  We have these things called empathy, morality and laws instead.

"However, when the Lord comes back (and he will). He'll put an end to your party and OURS WILL START!!! The best part is...... OUR PARTY WILL NEVER END!!!!"

You do know you're coming across as a bit deranged at this point don't you?  Again, is this sort of joy at others perceived misfortune very in keeping with Christian morality?

Religious people think that a big man with a long beard created the universe and then some guy and some woman ate some fruit therefore DAMNING US ALL TO HELL and then they had some children who all lived to >700 years (!) and then God fashioned a pit of fire in the sky and then disappeared magically. Does all that sound reasonable to you? No! The Big Bang and evolution disprove religion entirely. If he was real, why wouldn't he show us some evidence of his existance?

Anarchy101

05 Nov 2012 07:03

4 Comments

Because then there would be no reason to have faith.
"Religious people"? Really? You're comments are riddled with generalizations, stereotypes, and assumptions. You should learn more about what you're saying before making definitive statements.

morganfm

26 Nov 2012 19:16

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These comments are so unintelligent it hurts. None of them are reasons, merely opinions or assertions of they're upbringing. Religion and God and the afterlife are nothing more than self-fullfilling prophecies:

Join the Church (so the Church gains more members) and go to heaven.

Live how we say to live, go to heaven.

God doesn't need to prove himself, because He's God.

Question God (or the Church) and His (or the Church's) teachings and go to Hell.

seeeye

09 Oct 2012 21:44

2 Comments

No, you're the one making assertions. That is not all the church is about. You are stating your blind and poorly informed opinions about religion. It is not about collecting members or, atleast it shouldn't be. I don't know what church you went to (if you've even ever gone to church) but it is not for doing good things so you can go to heaven. It's people like you who go to church purely because you don't want to go to hell or you want your children to be raised in the Christian belief. Devout Christians go to church and study the bible to better appreciate the God that they believe gave them life. It is also encouraged that you question God because through doing that, you learn more about faith. I was atheist from age 10-18. I went to church because I didn't want to scare my parents and I thought religion was the most idiotic thing and that it didn't make any sense whatsoever. I thought people were stupid for following a God that wasn't there. So, out of curiosity for why people were so religious, I studied it and spoke with people who had experienced the same doubts for God. Of course this is a personal experiance but I learned alot through questioning Christianity. I am religous now but I still often have my doubts about things. And God doesn't need to prove himself because it is up to an individual to decide where their faith is. If you're always looking for a "sign" then you are lazy. God shows himself to those who have accepted him, not the skeptics(usually) and it's not often that he does. You want to know why? Because he wants you to accept him without having to continuosly prove himself. Is this my opinion? Yes, but I can never put you through the same experiences that myself and others have had so I will probably never convince you until you take the first step to understanding religion rather than making uninformed assertions about it.

khiri

15 Oct 2012 14:37

Comment

No, you're the one making assertions. That is not all the church is about. You are stating your blind and poorly informed opinions about religion. It is not about collecting members or, atleast it shouldn't be. I don't know what church you went to  (if you've even ever gone to church) but it is not for doing good things so you can go to heaven. It's people like you who go to church purely because you don't want to go to hell or you want your children to be raised in the Christian belief. Devout Christians go to church and study the bible to better appreciate the God that they believe gave them life. It is also encouraged that you question God because through doing that, you learn more about faith. I was atheist from age 10-18. I went to church because I didn't want to scare my parents and I thought religion was the most idiotic thing and that it didn't make any sense whatsoever. I thought people were stupid for following a God that wasn't there. So, out of curiosity for why people were so religious, I studied it and spoke with people who had experienced the same doubts for God. Of course this is a personal experiance but I learned alot through questioning Christianity. I am religous now but I still often have my doubts about things. And God doesn't need to prove himself because it is up to an individual to decide where their faith is. If you're always looking for a "sign" then you are lazy. God shows himself to those who have accepted him, not the skeptics(usually) and it's not often that he does. You want to know why? Because he wants you to accept him without having to continuosly prove himself. Is this my opinion? Yes, but I can never put you through the same experiences that myself and others have had so I will probably never convince you until you take the first step to understanding religion rather than making uninformed assertions about it.

Comment

No, you're the one making assertions. That is not all the church is about. You are stating your blind and poorly informed opinions about religion. It is not about collecting members or, atleast it shouldn't be. I don't know what church you went to  (if you've even ever gone to church) but it is not for doing good things so you can go to heaven. It's people like you who go to church purely because you don't want to go to hell or you want your children to be raised in the Christian belief. Devout Christians go to church and study the bible to better appreciate the God that they believe gave them life. It is also encouraged that you question God because through doing that, you learn more about faith. I was atheist from age 10-18. I went to church because I didn't want to scare my parents and I thought religion was the most idiotic thing and that it didn't make any sense whatsoever. I thought people were stupid for following a God that wasn't there. So, out of curiosity for why people were so religious, I studied it and spoke with people who had experienced the same doubts for God. Of course this is a personal experiance but I learned alot through questioning Christianity. I am religous now but I still often have my doubts about things. And God doesn't need to prove himself because it is up to an individual to decide where their faith is. If you're always looking for a "sign" then you are lazy. God shows himself to those who have accepted him, not the skeptics(usually) and it's not often that he does. You want to know why? Because he wants you to accept him without having to continuosly prove himself. Is this my opinion? Yes, but I can never put you through the same experiences that myself and others have had so I will probably never convince you until you take the first step to understanding religion rather than making uninformed assertions about it.

Comment

Aren't we descended from monkeys?
Not created by god?

yoyogirl12

27 Sep 2012 00:10

3 Comments

Cool im in your team bro

TheKing985

02 Oct 2012 17:36

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Of course not. Creationists say "Oh so we came by chance. That does not make sense!" Well you see there does not alway have to a a meaning to life. We are random. Also it is far more logical to say god does not exists. It makes sense.

Kryten4000

23 Sep 2012 01:02

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Yes, i agree

podgee59

15 Sep 2012 14:59

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Even if god is real he has left us alone for dead. God doesn't exist.

AviaraRoh

03 Sep 2012 01:56

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God is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. That means it's impossible to design a test in a controlled environment that would determine whether or not God exists. The existence of God is such an abstract concept that it's absurd to even consider its possibility. Look up Russell's Teapot to see what I mean.

GabeGold14

23 Aug 2012 16:41

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My own 40 years on this planet have yet to show one example of anything which could only be explained by the presence of God. The stunning absence of proof, eventually must be considered proof of absence.

Furthermore, something in the sense of the Christian God, makes no sense. Any entity that powerful would not care about humans. The only version of God which makes any sense at all would be as some sort of impersonal force of nature, something that causes the peculiar order in the universe, but doesn't really care whether we are in it. But such a thing would be nothing like traditional views of god.

RWEMD

21 Aug 2012 21:49

2 Comments

It's about perspective. Your assessment of the "Christian God" is based on a worldly view. In the eyes of the world, someone who is powerful wouldn't care about those beneath him. The Christian view is that God, who is infinitely powerful and has absolutely no need for humans whatsoever, chooses to love us regardless. We are entirely at His mercy yet He cares for us and loves us. Christians are called to love selflessly as God loves us, despite the sin of the world that advertises selfishness and greed.

morganfm

26 Nov 2012 19:26

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Religion is essentially just faith in something that you can not see,hear,taste,touch etc. So, religion is faith in any being that is abstract. This being said... There is no proof of existence. If God was real, wouldn't he leave behind something concrete to prove his existence? However, the idea that god is abstract further improves faith. We always assume he is listening; tending to our problems, etc.

7Dominic7

04 Aug 2012 22:15

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The truth of Pascal's Wager means that I'm betting on an infinity of differing possible gods. I think it's far better to go with the far more plausible idea of the lack of its existence then to bet against infinity.

If a benevolent god exists, it should know the exact reasons for why I am an atheist, and that it created me as such. Therefore, I should not be punished for my predetermined path.

limyaael

21 Jul 2012 23:47

1 Comment

Ummm...well God knows that you are an atheist...He knows everything...

BrianMudde

17 Aug 2012 14:01

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I can't prove that god exist, but it depends what you believe

PissLuvPee

20 Jul 2012 17:04

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I don't believe there is a God, but I believe there must be some higher form or something out there.

niomilynn

18 Jul 2012 14:37

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Im athiest for the simple fact that i have seen no proofe that god exists once i see with my own eyes that there is a god then i will belive

Kiseki916

16 Jul 2012 23:01

4 Comments

have you seen the mere fact that youre alive...

BrianMudde

21 Jul 2012 19:58

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If there was any proof that god exsisted then i would 100% believe in him however, there is no proof that he exsists and proof of the big bang (red shift and blue shift created by the big bang for starters) so as it stands, god doesn't exsist, face the facts.

jdawg92

10 Jul 2012 07:35

4 Comments

Actually, there is no proof that the Big bang is an absolute truth. It's simply an offered explanation of the start of the universe as we know it. The blue shift and red shift may correlate to the big bang, but it does not imply that the big bang caused them.

Antares

10 Jul 2012 11:04

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I am agnostic & Nihilist... & I affirm with Nietzsche's "God is Dead."

Nathaniel

09 Jul 2012 21:01

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I'm atheist
so i don't really know for sure if god does really exist
but if you show me god
i will believe he exists

LEXUSLOVER

03 Jul 2012 22:17

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God does exist because some religions believe it. It's unacceptble
God is the creator of everything how dare you say that in front of me i believe god is real and no one can take that belief from me
even if i'm a intermediate student doesn't mean that some physco can take my belief away from me i am who i am!

My school Bucklands Beach Intermediate

THE_KID

22 May 2013 02:37

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There has to be a "High Power" that started it all. We couldn't have just popped on Earth randomly. Even if you believe in evolution, something had to create the primates.

_naiharris

16 May 2013 19:28

1 Comment

well we know that something else other than god created primates, just look at an evolutionary tree, but yes if we trace science far back enough we come to a halt and maybe that could be where god or some higher being comes in, no one ever said evolution or science disproves religion

tatrafan77

22 May 2013 21:05

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You don't have to see something to believe it. The energy and the forces are all around us. But your ignorance blocked your soul and you cannot manifest your true power. God does exist, but also the brain-washing of our society.

ZukoFire

05 May 2013 10:34

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God does exist.

Tititi1551

03 Apr 2013 14:52

1 Comment

you need a reason

FisTOfDoOm

17 May 2013 05:23

Comment

Having studied medical science and physics (quantum mechanics, string theory, etc) and cosmology, I can safely say that the probability of a God is very high. The real question is not whether God exists or not, but rather do we believe he exists? If you don't believe in God, then even if he appears in front of you, you can claim that's a spirit and is a devil, so in your eyes, God will never exist. Therefore, the definition of what you think God is, is very important. This is relativity at its best. What appear as God to us, may look as the Devil to you!

Now I don't know about you, but when I read about Near Death Experiences of people from different countries and different culture having the same experience of going to heaven/hell, it's too much of a coincidence. Plus in physics, there are laws such as the laws of thermodynamics that states energy can never be destroyed, so when we die, what happens to consciousness if it can't be destroyed?

For the people that believes in evidence, then may I suggest to you that we humans understand too little and yet want to believe we're too smart. Do you know whatever we have managed to observe so far, makes up only about 4% of the actual universe out there? We don't know what made up those 96% of dark matter and dark energy. We don't even understand DNA well enough to cure cancer. If I was a billion years old alien visiting Earth, I would probably laugh at the human species for thinking we have evidence for everything despite the fact that we don't even understand our own DNA well enough. As the alien, I would feel sorry for stupid human species for killing each other and yet thinking they are wise enough to have direct evidence of God.

I am deeply passionate about science and science has also taught me that if I can't rule something 100% out, then there is always a probability that it can be true, in this case, the existence of God.

Above all, there is something that I think having faith in God is important. Let's assume both possibilities, if there's indeed a God, then it's a no brainer we benefit from our faith in God. If there's no God, then we STILL benefit if we practice the compassionate and love and kindness preached in the religious teachings. If everyone is kind and compassionate, then not only isn't there war, but the trillions of dollars spent on nuclear weapons could have been spent to build homes and nice delicious food for all. Those money could also be spent on curing illness and eradicate cancer. So if you realize whether God exists or not, it's always a good option to believe in God, then suddenly it makes sense.

I could write a lot more indirect evidence of God but faith in God doesn't have to come from Science, it has to come from within you. Like I said, if you don't believe in God, even if he appears in front of God, you will claim God is a Devil, it's your choice.

AreWeReal

24 Mar 2013 13:17

3 Comments

FIRST OF ALL MORALITY IS NOT A RESULY OF RELIGION..BUT OF EVOLUTION...THE EMOTION OF KINDNESS AND LOVE ARE NECESSARY FOR HUMAN SURVIVAL AND NOT A RESSULT OF RELIGION...SECONDLY AGREED HUMAN DONT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE UNIVERSE AROUND MAYBE NOT EVEN 4%...AND FROM UR ARGUMENT IT SEEMS EVEN U BELEIVE THERE IS A PROBABILITY ABOUT HIS EXISTENCE...BUT WHAT REASONS YOU HAVE TO BELEIVE NEEDS AN EXISTENCE OF GOD...WHICH TURNS THE SCALE IN HIS FAVOUR??

RONAK111

12 May 2013 11:04

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Well heres a question, do you believe in LOVE? Really? Well if you do, do tell me can you see love? No. Can you hear love? No. Exactly but its presence is still there? Yes. This is exactly like God. He does exist, although we cannot hear or see him, we can feel His presence, especially through worship and prayer. This is MY opinion. God Bless.

isaiahx

21 Mar 2013 03:18

1 Comment

I'm not so sure we can't see love. There is, after all, physical evidence of it in brain activity.

ohon

01 Apr 2013 04:51

Comment

I think God is misinterpreted. Human existence, and the existence of all other things, came about by survival of the fittest. Before all the modern hype about every living human being treated equally, strong humans, with the biological systems and makeup we have today, would have killed those who lacked it if they did not die on their own. If, for example, a human was born without a pancreas, they would die. If a human was born with a defective brain, a human with a better brain would have killed said defective human before he/she had the chance to reproduce.

That is my belief on how the complex biological systems present in all human beings came to be. However one may still ask the question, how did life start? Why don't we know? How does each little strand of DNA know what job to undertake? That, my friends, is a mystery. However I am confident that there is a scientific explanation that is far too complicated for the simple mind of the human being.

Having made it clear that I don't believe God incited this evolution, I would like to get back to the topic at hand. I believe God is a collective belief shared by most of the world. As long as one believes in God, He exists. I know that the proof of His existence has been lacking, and I believe it is because of this. God doesn't exist in the conventional sense, but rather in the sense that He is believed in.

To make an analogy, imagine 7 out of 10 people believe that there is life at the core of the sun. Those 7 out of 10 people will never know in their lifetimes if there is or is not. So for their entire lives there is simultaneously life in the middle of the sun, and no life in the middle of the sun. This is the old Schrodinger's cat example, if that clarifies it. However to those 7 out of 10 people, there will always be life in the middle of the sun, whether those aliens ever play a role in their lives or not.

I guess what I'm saying is that no matter whether God really exists or not, he exists to those who believe in him.

As for those who have claimed to be impacted by God directly, I have no comment. It has not happened to me or to anyone who I particularly trust, and therefore I cannot weigh in.

JonahD

19 Mar 2013 20:37

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To believe in something with out proof is faith (more or less), if you knew all the ways God operated that wouldn't make him much of a God. I can't make you believe in a God only you can choose what you believe in.Even if you believe theres a god that doesn't make you a Christian you have to repent of your sins. Im no preacher or expert on this topic all i have is what I've read from the good book book and whats been preached to me.

allinall

18 Mar 2013 12:15

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God exists-just look around you, you can see God in everything around you-
If you can't see God, JUST PRAY to God to gently show himself to you-
and God will show you when the time is right-
Trust me, thats what I did and God has indeed showed himself to me-

jmj0ker

17 Mar 2013 21:21

2 Comments

Trooooooll in the dungeon.

soundburn

17 Mar 2013 21:27

Comment

First off, no, actually you don't have evidence that He doesn't exist. Why? Because you can't prove anything simply because you haven't seen Him. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. That's the equivalent to a believer of God telling you, "Look around you! God does exist!" I don't use such methods.

Secondly, we should all agree that the universe is one freakishly amazing place. But then what happens when "God" comes to mind? Some big stupid giant? Well, it's no wonder that you don't want to believe in His existence. I don't need to know what God looks like, because I know that He's much more beautiful and out of this world rather than some giant glowing weirdo.

Thirdly, scientists don't even know what's keeping our hearts beating. So why question something so much more complex like GOD's physical appearance?

espada0330

16 Mar 2013 13:59

2 Comments

"when you have something smarter claim." Yeah. Okay.

Your argument is so full of fallacies, it's not even addressable. I don't picture God as anything. Nor would I. Do not assume what an atheist thinks or does not, without asking them. It's offensive. And it makes you look significantly unintelligent.

soundburn

17 Mar 2013 18:12

Comment

God exist. There are many signs. Just look outside. Look at a tree. Doesn't a tree look weird? Who would ever think about a tree being an important thing to our survival. Yet, the tree provides us oxygen to breathe. Think about an atom. Look how much structure there is. There's is no way that Earth and the universe could be created by chance. There is too much structure and order to say that.

letsgo25

27 Feb 2013 17:41

1 Comment

Yes there is a way that the world could have been created by chance, and it has. I know this because there are many legitimate theories suggesting so. Whereas, the bible which says god created the earth, was written AGES ago, and for all you know, could have been created as a fiction book at the time.

wam

05 Mar 2013 15:58

Comment

First of all, I agree with many portions of science, ranging from plate tectonics to aliens, but I am also Christian.
Point one is simple. Science can not explain everything. It can not even explain why bees can fly. When scientists plugged in all the variables, including the rate of flapping their wings to the lift produced to the weight of the bee, the equation doesn't add up. So science can't explain why an insect can fly.
Point two, science contradicts itself. Constantly. The most ironic contradiction is about the Big Bang theory. First, let me remind you of the Law of the Conservation of Matter. It states that matter can not be created or destroyed, only changed. So when the show The Universe came on, I found myself laughing. In a testimony by a prominent scientist, she explained that the Big Bang happened because of the levels of dark matter and matter becoming unbalanced; this can only happen if some is created or destroyed. Strike one. Then she explained that when the uneven levels collided, they Big Banged and made the universe, most of the dark matter and matter destorying each other in the process. Strike two. The next paragraph details strike 3.
One thing that scientists love to talk about religion is that if you can't see, feel, touch, or observe something, and so on, then it can't exist or is illogical. Then we go on to the subject of dark matter. Dark matter is the opposite of matter. It supposedly is just like matter, except it has no mass. Contradiction there, if you haven't noticed. And guess what. Dark matter is unobservable. The only reason it was suggested was that the expansion of the universe was speeding up, and scientists had no idea why. So, what do you know? Scientists believing that something, that is unobservable and undetectable, is real, and we Christians are the suckers? Strike 3. You're out.

higa123

25 Feb 2013 21:32

5 Comments

You're applying classical physics to quantum mechanics, which you can't do. Matter gets created from energy and vice versa all the time.

sam-samuel

01 Mar 2013 07:53

Comment

1.  As soundburn showed you are wrong - so either ignorant about a claim you are making or deliberately lying.  Both are sort of bad when debating...  Also, and I do love how much time this quote saves me: "Science knows it doesn't have all the answers, otherwise it would stop, but just because it doesn't have all the answers doesn't mean you can fill the gaps with whatever fairytale you like the most."
2. My knowledge on this subject isn't good enough to make an argument, but you don't seem to have actually addressed sam-samuels comment.  Just because you didn't understand the science doesn't mean his argument is invalid.
3. Dark matter is not the same as same as a deity myth, it is observed by its absence in much the same way that when you can't see all the stars in the sky you know that something (clouds, pollution) must be obscuring them - to claim that those stars no longer exist would be ridiculous.  Further more, scientists are constantly striving to investigate what dark matter might be so as to create hypotheses that are falsifiable.  Again, nothing like religion.

He is sooooooooooooooo real. If he isn't who made earth? And why is christianity the most worshipped relion on earth!!!!!!??????

116ben116

06 Feb 2013 19:54

5 Comments

lol, you idiot, Christianity isn't the most popular religion in the world. Christianity is dying.

prospekt

09 Feb 2013 06:40

Comment

God may not be real to you or science, but I strongly think you are wrong.

Queen101

19 Jan 2013 14:20

3 Comments

Evidence please..

wam

05 Mar 2013 16:02

Comment

I'm a Christian . And to counter your statement . In the bible, it states that it is impossible to state that he is not real when he is all around you and many of people, through physical creation(Earth - Water - ETC)

God is a real living divine being. Reasons for his none intervention is because of the event that placed during Adam and Eve when he asked them to not eat from 1 specific tree. Tree of Good and evil. We think everything we do or say is always right, our actions and motivations are always right when it is complete opposite, hence why, this world is the way it is today. Human lust and vanity destroyed the very planet that was supposed to create peace and happiness.

Eloah

14 Jan 2013 18:27

2 Comments

Do you think, God a man of patience and forgiveness, would have held a grudge against all of humanity, because of two early aged humans calledd adam and eve?!?!?

wam

05 Mar 2013 16:03

Comment

As a wise man once said "absense of evidence is not evidence of absense." Even if we have proven evolution is right, even if we were to find proof that a few bible concepts are wrong we still have yet to prove god doesn't exsist.

I will admit i don't believe in creationism i thing god gave us that story so we had something to go by until we figured it out on our own. I think god purposely left answers unanswered so we have a purpose in life. I think he went down in different forms because man wasn't all going to believe in one religion.

I still believe he exsists.

deathnote9

12 Jan 2013 21:36

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I mean like u cant say that he doesnt exist when u dont have any idea urself whether he does or not so wen u get ur proof we might as well say that yes he does exist

hb999

18 Dec 2012 16:31

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Im against

BekkahBear

09 Dec 2012 23:43

Add a Comment

He dose if you have a religon

ruebro2

03 Dec 2012 12:05

1 Comment

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Anarchy101

10 Dec 2012 13:26

Comment

Any one that says he doesn't exist cannot prove it! So keep to your faith that he doesn't. At the end of the day its still faith and if you believe in God then you'll know that he created "faith"

jamador88

29 Nov 2012 11:52

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He exists, read the Bible for goddamn sake people!
And also ask some people who are alive when Jesus or his deckles are alive and are still alive now!

kuleg

28 Nov 2012 05:33

3 Comments

The Bible can't be used as proof of God's existence.

pollywog

12 Dec 2012 10:19

Comment

God's existence is not determined by our ability to perceive Him. He is present and evident in all of creation. There is an undeniable order to nature, order that can only come from the intention of a divine Creator. Math and science are not a substitute for God, they are a testament to Him; they are our feeble attempt at understanding the vastly complex and divine works of God.
You asked for proof that God is real? Here's your proof: A flower opening.
The rotation of the planets. The birth of a child. The list is endless. Proof of God's existence is everywhere; it is in the detail and organized complexity that results in something impossible.
Faith is believing without tangible "proof". We are called to love our Creator unreservedly, trusting and believing by faith, not by sight. If God painted a billboard in the sky saying "Hi, I'm God and I'm real, I made all of you and you should worship me", we wouldn't need faith. There would be no need to trust in His existence and love.
A final note: "you don't know if you're sick, but you're more than willing to take drugs just in case. Seems to me you should give the man upstairs the same benefit of the doubt that you do an invisible fungus."

morganfm

26 Nov 2012 19:11

2 Comments

Is it on a tiger killing a gazelle? A shark eating a man? An earthquake? An accidental abortion?

How does a flower opening prove there's a god?

"Faith is believing without tangible "proof""?
No, faith is believing without proof. Gravity isn't tangible, but there's proof of it. What's the proof of God? You only say everything, but there's chaos in nature, and nature isn't perfect.

Why do we even need faith? That's a weak argument, how do you know Allah or Zeus is expecting you to have faith in them? Or anyone else that expects you to trust in them, even if there's no evidence of anything.

On the final note, no idea who you're talking to :P

sismetic

26 Nov 2012 19:47

Comment

This a faith issue. I am a strong Christian, but I still don't think science or anything else can PROVE God's existence. But my personal faith is that He does.

AJKA

13 Nov 2012 22:24

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I do believe in god! OK let's have a look, If god doesn't exist then how did the universe appear? You tell by the big bang theory!? Big bang happened because of the hydrogen and someone had create this element and I guess it's god!

oybek1995

09 Nov 2012 07:23

1 Comment

God = hydrogen? Huh?

pollywog

12 Dec 2012 10:23

Comment

What created earth? (long story... Lets just say in space)
what created space? The big bang
what created the big bang? Atoms
what created atoms? GOD OF COURSE!
What created god? Who knows?

catzcanfly

08 Nov 2012 02:11

2 Comments

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

pollywog

12 Dec 2012 10:21

Comment

If god doesn't exist, then who am I?

b-b-b-bird

07 Nov 2012 21:42

2 Comments

i dont know...
after you have just said that children are dumb

catzcanfly

08 Nov 2012 02:08

Comment

If there is a god, then who is god's father?
Christianity is brain-washing. This is totally nonsense.

mattleexD

07 Nov 2012 21:42

1 Comment

Then why are you on this side of the arguement

wam

05 Mar 2013 16:11

Comment

God was sittin' around one day then he decided to say something "Hey I need a light" Boom there it was, and it was good. Evolution says: Nothing was sitting around doing nothing, and then nothing got upset at nothing and exploded into something...

CoffeeKev

06 Nov 2012 21:01

Add a Comment

This seems to be an ongoing battle between who is right and who is wrong

I am a casual, not extremely dedicated Muslim , so I believe in God (yes, God, not Allah, im using english so im using the english word).

I still think its absurd for me to say there is /definitely/ a God just as much as it is to say there /isnt/ a God.

We have no way of knowing, none at all. I think its ridiculous and arrogant for someone to be so adamant and bias.

So im against what you said, although open to the possibility there might not be one

asphodeath

18 Oct 2012 03:52

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I believe in a deity... End of story. It's up to the individual to decide whether or not something exists. I'm not going to explain my beliefs because this argument has been made so much I'm sick of it. Read a bible, do some scientific research, but I'm not going to be the one to spoon feed you reasons for why there is a God. Stop saying these things if you don't like the answers you get. You're not going to find "enlightenment" through the screen of your computer.

khiri

14 Oct 2012 20:40

Add a Comment

Some people don't realize this, but science = Christianity. There is so much scientific proof out there about the existence of God that you would have to be blind not to see it! Evolutionism is also a belief! You are believing that something, that is SOOOOO improbable and impossible, happened that brought us here! Where is your logic! The earth is not more than about 6000 years old. I know it doesn't fit in with evolutionists world view to have the earth be that young but it is, and it's been proven. Evolutionary scientists don't want it to be true so they cover it up. Also, since evolution is such an impossibility I don't believe that even with 300,000,000,000,000 years it would be possible.

Stash10

10 Oct 2012 13:05

6 Comments

Christianity is hardly scientific. After all, it said that pi equals 3 (which it doesn't) and that you can create an entire planet in six days (which you can't) and that THE MAGICAAAAL JEEEESUS (sarcasm intended) came back to life (which is impossible).

Anarchy101

08 Nov 2012 12:38

Comment

@Vegito  Your using fossil remains to "prove" that continents can shift positions?  Have you ever heard of Noah's flood?  During the flood those fossils could have been deposited on both places.

There are other evidences for a young earth too.

carbon-14 dating actually proves a young earth.  Radiocarbon (carbon-14) cannot remain naturally in substances for millions of years because it decays relatively rapidly. For this reason, it can only be used to obtain “ages” in the range of tens of thousands of years.

Since we still find carbon-14 in substances today we have to assume that the earth is only thousands of years old.

We can also look at it from an astronomy perspective...

The gravitational pull of the moon creates a “tidal bulge” on earth that causes the moon to spiral outwards very slowly. Because of this effect, the moon would have been closer to the earth in the past. Based on gravitational forces and the current rate of recession, we can calculate how much the moon has moved away over time.
If the earth is only 6,000 years old, there’s no problem, because in that time the moon would have only moved about 800 feet (250 m). But most astronomy books teach that the moon is over four billion years old, which poses a major dilemma—less than 1.5 billion years ago the moon would have been touching the earth!

It is actually much more ignorant to think that the earth is a whole lot older than 6000 years, because then you are thinking that you are better (or at least smarter) than God.  We can see in the bible that God created the earth in 6 literal days, and by adding up the genealogies (because the bible tells us when people lived and how long they lived) we know that the earth is about 6000 years old.

Your the ignorant one to think that you can tell God what he did.  Let God tell you what he did!!

Comment

I bleave he does

alh88407

08 Oct 2012 09:21

Add a Comment

Im christian

anaken90

08 Oct 2012 09:20

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God exist. Although it depends on you religion. I am a christian so of course I believe that God exists. This is something that can't be proved to be right or wrong because it is based on belief.

DayDreamer

03 Oct 2012 16:52

Add a Comment

I prefer to see god as nature. There is an order of intelligence that allows evolution and the complex balanced environments we live in. I don't see an argument against gods existence just as I don't see evidence of who or what he/she/it is, there has to be some plan behind it though. Living organisms all evolve back to a point where life started. Something had to have started the process off, nature, god whatever you want to call it exists, it is just an invisible force with an intelligence behind it. Evolution proves that.

Leema66

03 Oct 2012 05:02

3 Comments

Take a biology book, and read. Lol.

Antares

03 Oct 2012 11:06

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