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Global Climate Change Is Natural
The Earth is unglaciated more often than not. The Ice Ages are in fact just temporary phases for an otherwise warm planet. This cycle existed before humans showed up, and is continuing today. NASA, ESA, and various other sources confirm that Mars, Jupiter, Europa, Charon, and various other bodies in the solar system are also exhibiting global warming. Yet we are told that the cause of Warming on Earth is somehow for a different reason than these other places! Does not compute. I think we are mistakenly placing ourselves at the center of the universe once again.
 OzzieMan  09 Jun 2008 18:45
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Yes of course climate is a naturally dynamic condition. However we have been in a non-typical ‘golden period’ of earth climate that has been particularly conducive to the growth of the human population. And our current practices are directly contributing to accelerating climate change away from the conditions our species has found so very convenient for thousands of years now. And please I can’t stress this enough as a professional environmental scientist I am stating we are a significant and growing contributing factor to climate change. There is ongoing debate about many of the particulars around and implied by that statement but almost nobody in the scientific community still disputes what I just said. To me it makes sense from a practical standpoint to do what we can to stave off the inevitable climate change, for purely selfish reasons.
 
 finsch  09 Jun 2008 19:21
 6 Comments
 
 Why does everybody downplay the solar contribution? Why does the media not report global warming on other planets? Why is Earth's percentage change lesser than those other bodies? To me that speaks of Earth's biosphere mitigating the effect rather than causing it.

Finsch, I have a great deal of respect for your posts. But I will not accept anthrogenic causality until someone shows me how Earth is somehow immune to the solar output currently warming other bodies. Mars' ice caps have been shrinking for ten years. Jupiter has new red spots. Please explain how Earth is magically protected from these HUGE (and far more scary than human-caused) solar-system-wide temperature increases.
by  OzzieMan
 09 Jun 2008 19:32
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"Criminal ignorance"?? "Disdain for science"?? "Epic misdeeds"??

Hidell, I'm rapidly losing respect for you. "their warming may have specific causes unconnected with the warming we have seen on Earth"... Good work, spouting the party line. I didn't think you were such a knee-kerker, but I see I was wrong.

#1 -- Solar output is at its highest level in centuries. (Check NASA, ESA, space.com, anywhere you like).

#2 -- According to your words above, this isn't affecting the Earth.

That doesn't hold up. Earth does not get to be immune to increased solar output. I suspect there are other causes we haven't even suspected.

Hidell, despite your little rant about science, you're not thinking scientifically. Hockam's razor, my friend.
 
 OzzieMan  09 Jun 2008 19:17
 11 Comments
 
 And you don't think all the thousands of scientists worldwide who've endorsed the hypothesis of man-made global warming have considered this preposterous possibility? It's been considered and specifically refuted. Demonstrate a connection between solar output and warming trends on Earth. Show me a graph in which they're directly related. You can't. "You suspect their are other causes we haven't even suspected"? Maybe it's an old guy in the sky doing it to punish us because we didn't follow his commands? This is the essence of anti-science : the belief in an ineffable mystery. The essence of science is the view that we conquer mystery by measurement and observation.
by  Hidell
 09 Jun 2008 19:32
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If other bodies in the solar system are warming too, their warming may have specific causes unconnected with the warming we have seen on Earth. The only thing which could conceivably be responsible for warming multiple planetary bodies in the solar system at the same time is the sun. Yet the sun's output can be measured and these measurements prove that its output has not varied in any way which could make it responsible for the warming we have seen on Earth.

It's disturbing to see that even atheist Americans embrace the disdain for science which is nurtured by the cultists. You people really have a lot to answer for. Our civilisation is going to go down the tubes because of you and your criminal ignorance. It would be nice to think there would be Holocaust museums and the like built afterwards to commemorate your epic misdeeds. Unfortunately, none of us will be around to build them. Perhaps we should build them in advance and leave them to be found by aliens some day when they arrive on our dead world.
 
 Hidell  09 Jun 2008 19:08
 1 Comment
 
 Hey Hidell,
You might be interested in my dialogue with ozzie up above. I present some actual modeled estimates of solar intensity as opposed to human activity expressed in watts per cubic meter of atmosphere.
by  finsch
 09 Jun 2008 21:05
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