America Is Europe's Greatest Enemy.

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Europe would be far better off without American influence. Just look at the Georgian affair. Russia is defending itself from western encroachment just as America has vilified Cuba and Venezuela. They see Europe as a buffer zone, and care not for the consequences. There is no right or wrong in it, only politics.

2free

16 Aug 2008 01:44

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We've already beat 'em. *hee hee*

bookworm3

03 Dec 2008 02:33

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Like Iraq, or Afghanistan, America seeks to take its battles away from it's own doorstep. Missile shields in Poland, provoke a response.

2free

16 Aug 2008 01:51

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It is posted debates like this that fuel isolationism in America. I hope for the sake of the world you never get what you're asking for.

"Progressive" "enlightened" "educated" "liberal" Europeans are Europe's biggest threat.

Cons_Lies

16 Aug 2008 03:35

8 Comments

Isolationism? The world would be a safer place if that were true. Regime change in Iraq, yet demonising Russia, for defending a country full of Russians? A comparison I read was with Britain and the Falklands war. Although, granted, Britain never stirred Galtieri into invasion.
I believe America should be a major player in world politics, but it isn't always right.
Would you rather we had a backward, un-educated neo-con Europe? An American satellite possibly? There is some frightening ideaology in America.
What I am "asking for" Cons-lies is for Americans to question their own. If you truly love your country, surely you must question what in your opinion is not right, or hypocritical. It can be difficult to ask questions of America without a lot of American dummy tits flying out the pram. Patriotism to the extent of fanatacism sometimes.
I am no liberal, far more of a realist.

2free

16 Aug 2008 12:49

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Yeah. The price is high.

Since you know and despise, I'll just go with your "no wrong or right in it, only politics".

I'll go on record saying it's all about freedom. Taking the no wrong or right and the politics into consideration, the populace of todays nations need to concentrate on freedom. Freedom for all. All ethnicities, all religions, all forms of government, all individuals. Whereas these categories do not impede the freedom of others.

Incapsulted, this is what America stands for. Granted, as an American, the American government impedes some of my freedom. The American government, like all governments is a web of monstrous proportions. You tug on one strand of the web and it effects hundreds or thousands of other strands.

Also, as an American, I think the populace of Russia is full of great people. And Europe. And Asia. And the Middle East. And Africa. And all the rest.

It's all about the people in power and their being entangled by the web.

In my opinion, the more the world concentrates on freedom, the better it's chances. Hopefully, before we blow each other to kingdom come, the smaller entities of ethnic divisions which clamour for self rule (especially in eastern Europe and Arabic nations) can be provided this oportunity. Alot of hatred that has been generated for centuries to overcome. But the age of brutal rule that keeps these divisions in check is coming to an end. The process of these divisions living together on this planet without a dominating force keeping them in check has to be lead by a unified world force driven by freedom.

True, it is replacing one force with another. But again, I believe the force driven by freedom, will in the end use their power less for domination.

The case of Germany and Japan are great examples. The route that western Europe and America took with Germany was much different than the route taken by Russia. The route taken by America with Japan was dramatically different.

There is a big difference between power based on freedom and power based on domination.

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Europe atrocities against Europe and the world win all the gold medals and break all the records.

Yep. Europe wins the all-time enemy award. To itself and others.

And Calvin is right. If Europe continues in its weakened state, it will be swallowed up.

Europeans need to believe in their loving, liberal thoughts and trust themselves to handle unified power in order to provide some good to this planet.

A good start would be to stop the murder of millions across the lake from them.

Next would be to embrace fragmented portions of the USSR into a powerful union based on freedom.

Monumental tasks for sure.

....probably couldn't do it without starting wars with themselves. Nevermind.

justsumguy

16 Aug 2008 02:28

14 Comments

I don't really see the Americanisation of Europe as a good thing. Not when I see what America is capable of accepting as its leaders. Not when I listen to some of the rhetoric of some Americans on this site alone. I'm from Europe, I give a hoot about where I need to stay.

2free

16 Aug 2008 02:34

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ok...I wasn't there. Could be a false report. But it was reported. The verbage sounded authentic to me. But that's no proof. If it was reported that an American general said it, you would be all over it.

Saying people are free to change their own regimes is beautiful. But extremely naive. Ask the millions of Africans who have died about forcing regime change. Ask the Iraqis who wanted regime change. Ask the powerless people all over the world about regime change.

As far as Iraq and Afghanistan, let me put it to you this way....

America is hit by an Islamic extremist terrorist act that kills thousands. Great Britian is an Islamic nation whose leader openly and repeatedly states his hatred of America and supports death to America.

The American president comes before the American people and the world to proclaim you are either with us or against us in the war on this terror. If you are against us, we are at war with you.

The leader of Great Britian continues to openly hate America and act as though he can beat them in a war (and the beautiful al jazeera actually supports his delusion) .

I, and many Americans would support the miliary removal of your leader.

Of course, it turns out your leader has many supporters in Great Britian. After all, this leader has made them the ruling people. Other people in your land are very happy for the invasion because he was murdering them.

But in the end, it doesn't matter. Do you have any idea what will happen if a terrorist act claims 50,000 lives in an American city? You and those who agree with your line of thinking need to do everything in your power to make sure it doesn't happen.

The hated George Bush Jr BACKED way off his statement after 9/11. The fact that Syria and Iran are still operating under their current leadership is a miracle.

Some of us Americans never bought into the weapons of mass destruction. We saw it for what it was....a political game that had to be played because of the weakness in Europe.

Until Europe does something about Africa, I have no use for European critiquing of the US.

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I don't think they showed spine, I agreed with Afghanistan, 9/11 was a tragedy, no nation should live under such a threat, and when Britain backed the US, I agreed with it, but they went into Iraq like monkeys, treating us all like monkeys, starting another war, when they hadn't even finished the first, all for Bush to get done what he wanted done in the time scale he had in power, and while America was ripe for it. I understand Iraq, which is far more complex than any of the reasons we have been sold, but I don't know if I agree with it. I despise the use of democracy and freedom as a tool in political agendas, and think it be-littles America to have a president sell wars on such a false concept. I do not generalise, I do believe the fact some European countries didn't blindly charge in with the American cavalry is an example of good government, remember, the UN declared the war illegal. Iraq happened, it is a war we cannot afford to lose. 
I am not sure if you are just trying to rile with some of your comments, or if you actually believe them, I hope you never know your country as others do.

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Sorry but Europeans are Europe's greatest enemy has been and always will be. They are their own worst enemy if they don't learn how to Live as one, and select leaders that will lead their country in a way that the rest of the world will look upon them with respect. They will lose in all areas of existence. A country divided among itself cannot stand.

Calvin

16 Aug 2008 02:03

14 Comments

Are you American? The IRA was armed from America for years, they never became terrorists until America felt terrorism. I don't believe there have been many terrorists against America funded from Britain. It's a bit of a high horse to preach at our lack of unity. I am not anti American, but Christ, the men you have in power?
If you believe in hypocrites you will preach hypocricy.

2free

16 Aug 2008 02:18

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2free, I understand where you're coming from. But it doesn't matter what the issue is. When people start debating it's always like talking to the brainwashed. People speak over the top to protect their agenda. Especially politicians.

America, like most countries is a diverse nation. Probably the most diverse. The word Americans describes many things. Most American presidential elections are decided by less than 20% of the votes. We usually have at least 40% of the voters lose. That's alot of Americans.

When speaking of criticizing and seeing the faults of one's country, it is important to remember that this is done quite openly in the US. Also in Great Britian.

It is rarely done in Russia and China. This is a fact which we all know. It's not propoganda.

Americans as a whole, do have trouble with someone saying they blindly follow their government when there are close to 2 billion people in China and Russia who can't criticize their governments. It simply seems preposterous to most of us when governments of free societies are criticized with comparisons to totalitarian governments or even the Nazis.

Being critical about our governments is natural to most of us. But it has to be remembered there are real life and death issues going on today. And the world is not on a level playing field. Survival and freedom is not a given.

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Gee...Georgia is complicated. We'll probably make it through the Georgia/Russia conflict.

Like I said, we'll see. If Russia doesn't throw in with the west, it isn't going to like what's coming. Georgia won't be the only ones. Most of the soviet breakaways will be leaning to the west.

Is this the way you spoke of Bosnia? Was it a black and white issue for you.

I'm sorry eastern europe is such a powder keg of ethnic hatred. I'm also sorry so much of the middle east is. And Pakistan and India. And quite a few of the Pacific Islands. Africa. Dates way back.

Again, you can hold the peace with an iron fist or you can try and fix it. Either way people will die. Walk away...leave them alone...people will die. Send them aid and forgive their debt...people will steal it while thousands die of hunger. Love them all...the bad guys will dominate the weak while pretty peace songs are sung and people feel good about themselves from afar (that would be the "rest of Europe").

If you want to try and fix it...you have to do it through power with the right motives. I agree with you...probably impossible. Especially for people who do not trust themselves to do the right thing (europe).

Don't fool yourself. Americans have all the anti-war, anti-bad government, anti-hypocricy in government, anti-Bush, anti-conservative, anti-religion and anti-god info they need 24 hours a day. Our government argues openly just like the Brits. You would think they would go to war with each other any minute.

But you'll have to excuse us. Through it all, we still have faith in freedom and believe that America cares about people. Not this particular guy or gal, or this big business, or the military, or any of the political rhetoric. Not even team USA.

We believe in an ideal and are willing to pursue it even after we make it look like dung. That is what Europe is lacking.

Believe me, if Europe tries to do anything noble, dung will be right around the corner. But being afraid of your own shadow isn't going to help. Neither is blaming the one that steps out of the shadow and keeps trying.

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